scottwallace01 wrote:

Nice journal.

#1: I once thought of doing a journal like this, but didn't spend the time thinking it through. I did arrive at one conclusion. Hillary's theme song should be Pink Floyd's Welcome to the Machine. Either that or Crazy Bitch (not for the title...for the lyrics...because it would be hilarious to see her come out to fuck so good I'm on top of it).

#2: I think you've really misunderstood the message of Edwards. His Two Americas theme isn't a big series of this causes this, which causes that. Rather, it's a number of what he sees as social injustices, which often have something to do with poverty. He's not trying to start a class war at all. He's trying to make it clear that, even if your life is 100% perfect, there are those in this country who suffer from poverty, lack of health care, hunger, homelessness...the list goes on.

In particular, he highlighted the problem of homeless vets. His stats came directly from the US Department of Veterans Affairs (the VA: http://www1.va.gov/homeless/page.cfm?pg=1), despite O'Reilly's claims that he's wrong.

Anyway, he's now pretty much beaten, but I suggest you listen to his message with a fresh ear (i.e. not influenced by Faux News). It's not a class war message. It's a message of inequality and the fact that this country is better than that.

#3: I'm personally torn about Giuliani. If elected, would he govern by his ideals or, more likely in my opinion, would he play to the GOP base (i.e. anti-gay legislation, anti-abortion judicial nominees) in the hopes of rallying them to a second term? Perhaps more important is the fact that, like all GOP candidates, except Ron Paul, he wants to stay in Iraq and talks aggressively about Iran, as if it's our manifest destiny to overrun the entire Muslim world.

#4: Huckabee is very likable. I appreciate the fact that he views his religion as something having views beyond abortion and homosexuality. For example, his website claims that being a good Christian means being a steward for the environment. I applaud that view. He also wants to radically alter the constitution to bring it up to God's standards, whatever the Hell that means, and that's a frightful proposition.

#5: Hunter is gone...what do I care?

#6: Kucinich isn't mad. He's honest, even when he should keep his mouth shut. He didn't say he saw a flying saucer of little green men. He says he saw an unidentified flying object. Key word: unidentified. People think this means aliens, but it doesn't.

Anyway, I appreciate his honesty, and the fact that his policy positions don't represent what he thinks can be done during an eight year Presidency but, rather, where we should be, end game. As such, his healthcare plan is more aggressive than the others', and generally better, but it would be hacked down considerably before it passed. But, I do appreciate that he knows where we need to be, whether it's conceivable in the short term, or not.

#7: I like McCain, even though he was a fool to back this awful war. But, I think to myself, had Bush not played on the racism of South Carolina voters back in 2000, and McCain had been elected President, would we be in Iraq? I think the answer is no. He wouldn't have had the desire to do it, as Bush did, and he wouldn't have had a VP like Cheney, who completely misrepresented pretty much everything so as to make a stronger case for war.

I also like that he's a free thinker. His campaign finance reform was a step in the right direction, and the last few months of sucking up to the base have proven that the base doesn't like him anyway, so he's back on the ol' Straight Talk Express. If I had to pick a Republican, it would be McCain. I'm very sad he lost to Bush in 2000, as I think the world would be a different place, right now.

#8: Obama playing the race card is a myth. It didn't happen. Advocates for him may have done so. The Clintons have surely done so, in an effort to reduce him to the black candidate, which is a wholly untenable position. But he hasn't done it.

#9: Ron Paul is awesome. Watch this clip of him, back in '88.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

#10: My wife and I are really split on Mitt Romney. I say he's like a game-show host. She says he's like a used car salesman. Damn, this country is so divided!

#11: Best line of this journal: Had he ran in 1988 (back when he was still alive), he might have had a better shot.

Thompson's candidacy reminds me of that of Wes Clark, back in 2004. Everyone thought it was a good idea. Everyone told him to do it. He did it. Everyone realized that they were wrong.

When he was planning to get into the race, and people were talking about introducing a true conservative to the process, I kept thinking what about Huckabee? I'm not at all surprised to see that Huckabee completely stole his thunder. It just took the social conservatives a while to pick their guy.

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MetallicaACDC wrote:

#2: I think you've really misunderstood the message of Edwards. His Two Americas theme isn't a big series of this causes this, which causes that. Rather, it's a number of what he sees as social injustices, which often have something to do with poverty. He's not trying to start a class war at all. He's trying to make it clear that, even if your life is 100% perfect, there are those in this country who suffer from poverty, lack of health care, hunger, homelessness...the list goes on.

In particular, he highlighted the problem of homeless vets. His stats came directly from the US Department of Veterans Affairs (the VA: http://www1.va.gov/homeless/page.cfm?pg=1), despite O'Reilly's claims that he's wrong.

Anyway, he's now pretty much beaten, but I suggest you listen to his message with a fresh ear (i.e. not influenced by Faux News). It's not a class war message. It's a message of inequality and the fact that this country is better than that.
I know his Two Americas thing isn't a cause-and-effect deal, but I just don't like the strings he's pulling with the whole thing. Whether he's aware of it or not, he's actually dividing the country, not bringing it together. Bill O'Reilly spent an entire week researching the homeless vets statistics, just be sure he had them straight and in order before he called Edwards on it. I trust O'Reilly, I don't trust Edwards. It's as simple as that.


#6: Kucinich isn't mad. He's honest, even when he should keep his mouth shut. He didn't say he saw a flying saucer of little green men. He says he saw an unidentified flying object. Key word: unidentified. People think this means aliens, but it doesn't.
A triangular craft, silent and hovering... and you heard directions in your mind. That's Tim Russert quoting Shirley MacLaine from her book where she talks about Kucinich talking to her about the UFO (if you can follow that, lol). Here's the YouTube link if you wanna watch it.
Kucinich UFO


#8: Obama playing the race card is a myth. It didn't happen. Advocates for him may have done so. The Clintons have surely done so, in an effort to reduce him to the black candidate, which is a wholly untenable position. But he hasn't done it.
I'm not saying he goes back and forth between I'm black and I'm mixed on a daily basis, but his public image suggests it. He'll be seen talking to a mostly-white crowd at a rally one night, and the next night he'll be seen being endorsed by Jeremiah Wright, an alleged black supremacist in the United Trinity Church of Christ. When I say ease off the race card, I'm not accusing him of doing anything wrong. I just think he needs to be more aware of the people that are becoming associated with him and how they are effecting his public image. The last thing he needs to do is give more ammo to the Clintons to fire back at him.


#9: Ron Paul is awesome. Watch this clip of him, back in '88.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo
Man, I can still hear the sizzle from that one! See, that's why I like Ron Paul, he's a different kind of candidate. But again, I just don't know if I can trust him.


#10: My wife and I are really split on Mitt Romney. I say he's like a game-show host. She says he's like a used car salesman. Damn, this country is so divided!
You nailed it! Mitt Romney is like a gameshow host! Good eveing, ladies and gentleman, and welcome... to my STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS!!!


#11: Best line of this journal: Had he ran in 1988 (back when he was still alive), he might have had a better shot.

Thompson's candidacy reminds me of that of Wes Clark, back in 2004. Everyone thought it was a good idea. Everyone told him to do it. He did it. Everyone realized that they were wrong.

When he was planning to get into the race, and people were talking about introducing a true conservative to the process, I kept thinking what about Huckabee? I'm not at all surprised to see that Huckabee completely stole his thunder. It just took the social conservatives a while to pick their guy.
Glad to see you got a kick out of that line! But yeah, the biggest impact Thompson has had in this election is taking away votes from Huckabee. Huckabee might be tied with McCain as the GOP frontrunner right now if not for Thompson taking some of his traditional conservative votes.

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scottwallace01 wrote:

Thompson just dropped out, so that's that.

I won't fight you on Kucinich, as I certainly haven't dug deeply into the matter. My only knowledge of it is what he said at one debate, but all Russert asks him is whether he saw a UFO...he doesn't get into the other, much weirder stuff.

As for your Obama comments, I think that has more to do with him being a Democrat than with his race. After all, most people in this country are white, but most blacks vote Democrat. You could find similar comparisons for the other Democratic candidates. Also, the Clintons have been campaigning for the nation-wide black vote since 1991. He has a lot of ground to make up with a group that was, initially, overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton.

Regarding Edwards, I suppose whether you find his message divisive is a matter of opinion. I've noted (on other forums) that he and Obama are similar in message, but he attacks if from a negative angle of what's bad, while Obama attacks if from a positive angle of what could be. Not a black and white line (damnit...no racial pun intended), but it's there. If that's divisive, then so be it. But the point remains that the status quo has led us to this point, with all these problems, and to fix problems you have to recognize that they exist. Beats campaigning on fear, as a few seem to be doing.

Also, maybe I don't know what you're talking about with regard to the vets. I heard Edwards speak of them being homeless, etc., which when challenged by O'Reilly he backed up with US gov. stats. I'm not sure what truth O'Reilly could dig up to combat that. Perhaps he makes a distinction between living under bridges versus in alleys or on street corners, but that's nitpicking at best, and is really missing the heart of the message. IF you don't trust Edwards, then I suppose that speaks to the ability of his campaign to get the message across. How you reach the conclusion that you even CAN trust O'Reilly is beyond me.

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MetallicaACDC wrote:

The oddest thing about the whole Obama/race issue is that Hillary actually has A LOT of supporters amongst the older African-American voters. I just don't want it to appear as though Obama is getting black votes simply because he's part-black. I think that could turn away a lot of voters that he needs. And again, I like Obama, I'm not trying to bash him at all here.


Here's the deal between O'Reilly and Edwards: they both acknowledge that there are homeless veterans living under bridges and on the streets. They both agree about the VA's statistics. But Edwards says it's because of America's economy that the vets are homeless, which implies that it's somehow America's fault that its veterans are homeless.

Well, O'Reilly couldn't believe that. He and his staff spent an entire week researching and talking to the VA and military psychologists and what they found was that the vets are homeless not because of the country's economy, but because they come back from the Middle East and have serious psychological problems (alcoholism and drug addiction among the major ones) that they refuse to face, thus leading them to the point where they lose everything and become homeless.

Edwards is trying to pull sympathy for his cause by saying the economy is hurting the vets, which is simply not true. The economy (the Rich vs. Poor concept) has no connection whatsoever to homeless vets, but Edwards is trying to spin the statistics in his favor to garner votes.

It's that kid of dishonesty that I don't like, and that's why I'm not too big on John Edwards.

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scottwallace01 wrote:

I know you're not bashing Obama. Just trying to clarify the issue, there.

OK...back into the meat of this O'Reilly/Edwards issue.

#1: Veterans have serious psychological issues are:
a) those issues are at least partially caused, in many cases, by the wars we send them to
b) because of a, these problems are the government's responsibility.

#2: The fact that many aren't getting what they deserve can have two root causes
a.) The programs to take care of vet are underfunded
b.) The government is neglectful, despite adequate funding.
c.) If a lack of funds exists, then it is an economic issue, but either way this gets to the heart of Edwards's argument, which is that we treat people as one of two groups, the privileged and the unprivileged.

#3: The military draws disproportionately from poor America. So, again, it ties in directly with Edwards's theme.

In sum, these are (generally) poorer Americans, who make an incredible sacrifice, and come home to neglect. We all saw the conditions at the hospitals in DC. Utter neglect. And those were the guys getting treatment! This is an issue that everyone should be able to agree on. No matter what you think of this war, these soldiers and all before them deserve the best we can offer. Edwards's theme is that America has done a poor job of making life better for a lot of people. This fits right in, if you ask me.

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arjunation wrote:

I cannot vote in the election by a few weeks, but I do not pay attention to politics closely for many reasons. One is that it is a bunch of lobbyists. Two is that politics seem to be an incendiary to angering people. I am not interested in heated debates about the next President. People die in other countries over elections and politics. People are unwilling to be open and blindly support their candidate. Religion and politics are two things I keep to myself. I am a history buff, but the present is not for me.

Enjoy the race. Vote for the right person. Align songs with them. But I do not want any part of politics, even through the Internet. I like discussing sports, wrestling, music, and fun stuff of that nature, people are irreconcilible with their affirmations. I like the songs and themes, but you should have used Megadeth in addition. A Megadeth song for each character to bring out his or her negative side would have worked wonderfully.

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jcjohnson63 wrote:

cream-politician. nuff said.

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MetallicaACDC wrote:

I cannot vote in the election by a few weeks, but I do not pay attention to politics closely for many reasons. One is that it is a bunch of lobbyists. Two is that politics seem to be an incendiary to angering people. I am not interested in heated debates about the next President. People die in other countries over elections and politics. People are unwilling to be open and blindly support their candidate. Religion and politics are two things I keep to myself. I am a history buff, but the present is not for me.

Enjoy the race. Vote for the right person. Align songs with them. But I do not want any part of politics, even through the Internet. I like discussing sports, wrestling, music, and fun stuff of that nature, people are irreconcilible with their affirmations. I like the songs and themes, but you should have used Megadeth in addition. A Megadeth song for each character to bring out his or her negative side would have worked wonderfully.
Talking politcs can be a very fruitful conversation (as evidenced by my back and forth with ScottWallace here). I'm with you when you say that you can't stand talking to people who are blindly devout to a certain political party and aren't open to change. That's why I like to keep my options open, so I can have an interest in Huckabee (Republican) and Obama (Democrat).

Politics, when handled correctly, can be on of the finest conversations you've ever had. But if you get some airhead who keeps shouting down your opinion with his own, then yeah, politics suck. You just gotta find rational people to talk about it.

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MetallicaACDC wrote:

And Scott, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the Edwards/O'Reilly thing.

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peticsu wrote:

Just wanted to say I agree with you on a lot of things...I am more left leaning but I can see myself going with McCain. I give a lot of credit to Obama for trying to reach across party lines...sadly, I havent seen any republican candidates trying to get votes from the other side, trying to look for similarities. Its always the liberal this democrat that childishness. I think what we dont like about Romney is that hes not in touch with the middle class...heres a guy, who in my opinion, never had to truly prove himself. He always had it made, his dad was the governor of Michigan and ran the car companies so he was born into wealth already. I cant see Romney connecting with the middle class and Evangelicals dont fancy his religion too much. We'll just have to see if Giuliani gets FL. I still have my hopes for Bloomberg, I hope he can get enough signatures in Texas. Id like to see how his religion is treated by both parties.

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Gibson1976 wrote:

Ehh I think Hillary is overrated, sure it would be nice to see a female president, but she would only get in because of her husband... I honestly want to see anybody that is willing to pull the troops out NOW and dares to bring back electric cars.. shame on you Bush

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scottwallace01 wrote:

Agree to disagree? Not today, sir!

OK...I've looked into this a fair amount, now. All of this derives from Edwards's Iowa concession speech.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lz6L25hzSQ

The relevant comment is at the 7:08 mark.

Now, O'Reilly dealt with this comment on three different occasions.

January 4th (the day after the Iowa caucuses)

O'Reilly said the following, after playing a clip from Edwards's speech:

That was Edwards' concession speech last night. I mean, come on. The only thing sleeping under a bridge is that guy's brain. Ten million illegal alien workers are sending billions of dollars back home, and Edwards is running around saying nobody has any money. Hard to believe.

O'Reilly is basing his argument on something faulty. Edwards never once said that veterans are homeless because of economics. He simply said that tonight, 200,000 men and women who wore our uniform proudly and served this country courageously as veterans will go to sleep under bridges and on grates. I'll grant you that a good portion of his Two Americas theme is based on poverty, and certainly issues like healthcare are connected to poverty, but he never once said what O'Reilly claims he said. He's talking of only one thing, which is improving America, whether it's in combating poverty, improving healthcare, or, yes, in helping homeless vets.

January 15th

O'Reilly, in talking with a guest, proclaimed that we're still looking for all the veterans sleeping under bridges. When his guest responded that they were, indeed, doing just that, O'Reilly responded They may be out there, but there are not many of them out there, OK?

This is a problem. Edwards's statistic of 200,000 homeless vets comes straight from the VA. It doesn't get more official than that. In other words, O'Reilly is 100% wrong.

January 17th

After completely failing to have any grasp of the problem, O'Reilly appears to have accepted the number of homeless vets in America. But he can't stand that Edwards is right, so he constructs a counter narative:

Certainly there are homeless veterans, but it's not because of the economy. It's mostly because of addiction and mental illness, something politicians can do little about. But if Edwards admits the truth, it takes away the class warfare issue, which is his only issue.

This is laughable. First, the one who made this veterans issue about economics is, in fact, O'Reilly. Edwards framed it as one of the many problems facing America and something about which we should strive to do better. Second, Edwards's message isn't one of class warfare. I don't recall seeing him quoting Das Kapital or talking about a revolution of the proletariat. No, instead he's running for President, on the message of doing better for those who are underprivileged.

O'Reilly, on the other hand, runs a show that everyone acknowledges is ridiculously biased, clearly creates or twists facts in a way that is far from responsible journalism, and sexually harasses coworkers and, dare I say, innocent falafel.

If you don't like Edwards, that's fine...don't vote for him. But base it on what he says, his positions, and his message, and not O'Reilly's distortion of those.

P.S.- Saw that Hunter, your least favorite if I recall, has endorsed Huckabee...your favorite? Just curious if that's affected your opinion.

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GoMental wrote:

Ha, I wanted to ask you about your thoughts about that election thing anyway.
Well, the idea is awesome. Problem is I have no idea what it's all about, as our nice German newspapers seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that Obama and Clinton aren't the only ones. In fact, I knew maybe 4 of the candidates.
Anyway, I think I'm a little more lefty than you are, and I really like Obama, from what I've sen on CNN or something. And I don't like Hillary somehow. Don't know. I mean, I have a female leader and it's not such a good thing to have. Prejudice, I know. Hillary's not Merkel, after all. So, that's my totally neutral, almost Switzerland opinion.

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arjunation wrote:

Bill O' Reilly is an idiot. There are three people I hate: Paris Hilton, Jerry Falwell, and Bill O' Reilly. If you cannot tell, I am not white.

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scottwallace01 wrote:

Falwell's dead. Not that it's wrong of you to have issues with him...what I'm saying is, if you want to, now might be a good time to move on to someone else.

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You're totally wrong about Ron Paul.

He's awesome.

Oh, and Huck sucks.

MetallicaACDC wrote:

Like I said, Ron Paul used to be my favorite out of all of them. I just don't know if he's completely stable enough and all the way there mentally to lead the country. I think he, like Kucinich (who recently dropped out) would make a good Vice President for someone like Huckabee or McCain. Though Ron Paul is too proud to be anyone's VP, lol.

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I don't think the status quo is a very good thing for America. And VP isn't a good position for Paul, he'd be better off in the Senate.

Huckabee is horrible. He wants to amend the constitution to be in God's Standards.

We seriously don't need another guy like him.

Dreetn wrote:

Great initiative, too bad you've chosen such a shit songs like 'The Pretender'.

One voting advice: Yes, we can.

Take that as a:

- Yes, we can change
- Yes, I'm not being naïef against media
- Yes, I do read the candidates programs
- Yes, I do look forward
- Yes, I ...

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arjunation wrote:

^^^You probably should not be typing things like that. One of my neighbors was physcoanalyzed a few years ago for a similar comment.

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hansmoleman1 wrote:

Mitt Romney:
You Cant Always Get What You Want - The Rolling Stones, due to him wanting to bring obscenity and violence laws back to bring kids out of a so called ocean of filth

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This is really good! I'm lkiking it :D

Even if I can't spell!