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Second 8th Week Ministries :( - Part 5 - Correspondence with JoAnne Cremer
5 Jul 2008, 19:11
Original Message to JoAnne Cremer:
I was wondering if you could tell me why you call yourself an Apostle....and also why others in the second 8th week ministry call themselves apostles. I was also wondering if you could explain more what you believe the gospel message is.
The reason I'm doing this is because a friend of mine asked me what I thought of you. I had never heard of you or your ministry program before....so I wanted you to answer those questions for me. Thank you.
"Apostle" JoAnne Cremer's response to me:
From: Apostle JoAnne Cremer
Dear Melissa,
I identify my calling because it is important for Christians to know who to come to to receive their accredited education to Christ and the New Covenant. Apostles are the authorized office of the Government of God to disseminate the gospel. The early apostles also identied their calling too. This is not a boast, but important so that you know who is the authorized contact point for your faith. Confirmed, covenant apostles are vital for the Church, yet have been missing from the Church for my centuries and this is why so many Christians are confused, cannot overcome sin, and do not know their purpose and destiny, nor any of the spiriutal tools of the New Covenant Jesus shed His blood to provide for our salvation. They have been given man-made doctrines that tethered their faith to the things of the imagination, the aspiration, the flesh, etc. instead of Jesus Christ for the spiriutal transformation of the soul.
I have written extensively about the Apostle's Office and Second 8th Week Apostles' University on my blogs. The Second 8th Week Apostles are working around the world now and returning the Church back to the New Covenant, through accredited education to Jesus Christ's New Covenant terms.
The reason you don't hear much about this is because we are not a flamboyant multi-million dollar ministry. Our entire staff volunteers their time and gives away all the education and humanitarian services free of charge. We do not collect tithes or charge for anything. We freely give what we have freely received.
We have a full range of lessons that equip believers to walk in the fullness of Christ daily. We have a Foundation Series Training Program and a Leadership Training and Accreditation Program. Many leaders from around the world have enrolled and are now transitioning their entire congregations with our educatoin program and we have thousands upon thousands of testimonies of how Christians are experiencing daily sucess in their spiritual growth and spiritual transformation.
I would recommend you do these things.
1. Read my myspace page more carefully, as I have written alot there for visitors to gain more information.
2. Read all my blogs for more information, especially the earlier ones. For your ease I have listed out the blog titles and links at this site:
http://s8wstudentresources.com/?q=node/684
Copy that and put it in your browser window. You can peruse the titles and click on the ones you want to view easily. You can also listen to some of my sermons there.. just find the ones that mention audio file. When you listen to just one you'll gain much understanding.
3. Visit the S8W Student Resources Board and read some of the articles there and you can get a taste of what the believers who are being trained are saying.
http://s8wstudentresources.com
4. Sign up the University for the Foundation Series Training Program. Its free and self paced, via Distance Learning.
http://www.second8thweek.com
I hope these pieces of information have been helpful to you my sister.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to write me back. I'll be in prayer for you :)
Yours in Christ,
Apostle JoAnne Cremer
my response to JoAnne's message, which she never replied to:
I wanted to thank you for responding to me. I do have some further questions....
What do you think of the Holy Spirit? What do you think of the Holy Spirit's role in the life of a believer?
The reason I'm asking this is because I find what you're telling me to be problematic and contrary to Scripture. See, from what I'm reading of what you said, you've removed the Holy Spirit from the life of a Christian.
Why are only apostles able to share the gospel? I believe that the Holy Spirit equips all believers to share the gospel.
I also do not think that lack of "apostles" is the cause for some Christians being confused and not being able to overcome sin. It never has been in the power of men, even apostles, that people can overcome sin. It's only by the Holy Spirit. All Christians can rely on the Holy Spirit and be led by Him. Everyone who declares Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior has a personal relationship with God. He convicts of sin, and the things we need to work on in our life. That's what Scripture says, and that's been my own experience.
It's also the Holy Spirit, and Him alone, who leads people to the truth. He is the champion of truth....He leads us, affirms for us that we belong to God...He equips us with the knowledge and spiritual gifts that we can do to glorify Him, He leads us in the direction we need to go. He's God.
You also seem to be implying that it's only through your ministry program that believers can understand the truth and can understand the gospel....about Jesus' blood shed on the cross. What about the Holy Spirit leading people to the truth and reminding them of it?
Furthermore, it is the Holy Spirit who equips the believer. It is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us and changes us. It is from Him that I learn and grow. He trains me in the truth.
(To see what I specifically am writing in response to, please see what I have bolded in response to you)
Let me explain better...how do you veiw the following verses:
JN 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth.
JN 14:25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
JN 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
JN 16:5 "Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, ..Where are you going?' 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
JN 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
GAL 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Here are my reactions to watching three of her online teaching videos, and this is what I wrote to my friend who was asking me to listen to JoAnne:
Just as you requested, I'll listen to 3 of her talks.
My fourth impression of her
Yes, He can...He can do miracles....
But, really, I care about you, Guy. I really think that Apostle JoAnne is running more of a cult than anything else. She's telling you that you can only learn the truth from her and her Apostelistic organization.
That's contrary to biblical teaching. It really is. I'm afraid that you're depending too much on her. I'm afraid that she is misleading you. That's why I really think you need to get biblical truth from other sources as well.
It's dangerous for Christians to put all their faith in just one teacher or organization. It's Christ, and only Him that matters. All Christians that I know get their teachings from more than just one source. For instance me - I have read several Christian books, I read the Bible, I have a relationship with God and learn from Him, I go to four churches - two when I'm at home (one is the church I grew up in and the other is a church that I've been going to), two when I'm at school (one that I sometimes go to with friends from school, and one that I normally attend on Sunday mornings). I also have Christian friends that I learn from. I don't just learn from one denomination/church/Christian setting either. I've learned a lot from Big Break, Christmas Conference, Niagara 2000....just in my daily walk with God.
I don't just rely on one source, and ultimately, I don't just rely on humans. The most important thing is to rely on God.
I'm warning you about this because I care about you....if you only rely on what Apostle JoAnne says, you're setting yourself up to trust in humans and not God, and you're allowing yourself to be able to be led into a cult.
I put the sermons up there because I wanted you to be able to have something to compare JoAnne's teachings to. I wanted you to have another source other than just her....and they're really deep stuff. I got a lot out of them. The sermons are from several different sources - (names of various Christian pastors), and some others. They all speak the truth out of their love for God.
Please, I'm begging you, listen to at least one every week.
Because if what Apostle JoAnne is teaching is correct, then it should line up with all other Christian teachings, by other Christians who are led by the Spirit.
I know for certain that the people who I gave you the sermons from are led by the Spirit. Their words line up with every other Spirit led Christian that I have ever read, heard, or seen.
If there is any question that her teachings do not line up with the Spirit, then it should cause you to question her teachings. I know that you think she's led by the Spirit....and if she is, then there would be no problem in comparing it to other Christians.
You see, there is only one Holy Spirit, and what He tells one Christian cannot be in contradiction to what He tells another Christian, as far as teachings and doctrine is concerned. He does give some Christians more understanding on a topic than others, but there is still no contradiction. This is why it's very rich to be able to listen to the teachings from different Christians. All teachings from the Spirit should compliment and supplement other teachings. This is what I know to be true.
If JoAnne's teachings are in contradiction, that means that she's not getting it all from the Holy Spirit, and you need to be cautious....and I would say stop all connections with her.
All pastors should be scrutinized....if they are teaching false stuff, then you shouldn't listen to them. It means that they are a false teacher or a false prophet.
What makes Apostle JoAnne sound like a cult is her instistence that people can only learn the truth through her apostlistic program. She also is trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit.
I do trust that you have good judgment, but even people with good judgment can be deceived and led into a cult. Jesus warned about this. In these times we have to be especially careful.
There are several sources of witness that you can have to know God's will....(The following stuff is taken from the Alpha Course booklet)
1) Commanding Scripture - it needs to line up with Scripture. If it doesn't, then that means that it's not from God.
Example: "do not commit adultry"
you don't have to wonder if it's God's will for you to have sex outside of marriage. It's commanded in Scripture not to have sex outside of marriage.
2.) Compelling Spirit - do you feel compelled by the Spirit, you feel like an intense urge....like He's leading you to do something or not do something. If He gives you a strong desire, or you know something is against the Spirit....and He will let you know, this is another source
3.) Common Sense - God gave you a mind to reason with.
4.) Counsel of the saints - (saints meaning other believers in Jesus) - what about your fellow Christian friends....if they confirm it, then that is a stronger indication of something. If they strongly discourage you from something, that too is another strong indicator.
5.) Circumstancial signs - this is like God opening the door by arranging something in your life to allow for it to happen, or putting something in your life that leads to it.
Now, here's the caution, you have to be very careful not to just rely on any one of these, as they can all mislead you. But, if all 5 of these things seems to agree, and you have really talked to God about it and spent a lot of time with Him on it...really sought Him on the issue, then you probably know the answer to something.
I'm not saying that JoAnne is a cult, but I am saying that she has many characteristics of running a cult.....that's my caution to you. I do believe that God has His hand on you, but that doesn't mean that everything Apostle JoAnne says is truth. Just because God is definitely changing your life doesn't mean that you need to put all your trust in JoAnne.
I'll watch it, and I still have two more of Apostle JoAnne's lectures to listen to, as promised...I just haven't done that yet. I said I would listen to them, and I will. I'll give you my comments...
but my main problems with her still exist....it's right on her MySpace page. She says that a person needs to go through her Aposlte training program stuff in order to understand the Bible. The other problem is how she is taking the place of the Holy Spirit. Those two problems are major for me, and I feel strongly about this.
You see, "all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." (1 Corinthians 10:23) This goes with biblical teachings too...it's something that God has shown me, connected to that verse. Just because a particular pastor or teacher or person quotes from the Bible does not mean they have truth. Many groups use the Bible and twist it. Not everyone who conducts a Bible study is doing so in alignment with Scripture and the Holy Spirit. Not all Bible studies are good, just because they are Bible studies. They are not always beneficial.
I'll watch the video and let you know what I think, though. :)
Here is my opinion of the video you sent me:
It's the Holy Spirit who teaches....
something bothers me about Apostle JoAnne, and I can't quite put my finger on it.....
It's like it's all head stuff....I don't know exaclty how to explain it....but she's talking intellectually and out of her head......and maybe that's part of what bothers me about her
I have a hard time seeing where she's getting some of the stuff from the Bible passages she cites.....
it just feels that something's missing in her preaching, as if she's not truly talking out of her heart. This is the impression I get.
She has no passion for God, and I find her teachings to be full of a lot of fluff, they seem fakey, and they are about as stimulating as staring at a blank wall.
Here are my impressions after listing to another of her teachings:
I'm listening to the tutors and governors one....
I still feel like she's trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit who regenerates man....I think she's totally eliminating Him from everything. She also seems to be saying that angels are now taking the Holy Spirit's place.
Another important thing is...do you have a Bible with the New Testament in it?
If you don't:
http://www.biblegateway.com
I suggest reading either the New International Version (NIV) or New American Standard Bible (NASB) because they are easier to understand than the King James Version, which is what she's using.
This is extremely important that you are able to read the Bible yourself, and not just rely on what a person says. You need to make sure that everything that you read and learn is consistent with Scripture.
I don't agree with her talking about angels doing all that stuff....it's actually the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual gifts....not the angels. The Holy Spirit is God...not an angel. She's replacing other things with the Holy Spirit. That's a huge problem. That's setting people up to possibly be deceived by a false spirit....by angels that are actually demonic. This is what happens with Jehovah's Witnesses. They claim that their revelation is from "angels of light." This is what happened with the guy who started Mormonism. This is what happens with many cult leaders.
She's also saying that we can't understand perfectly unless we are under an Apostle. Paul never claimed to be on the level of the Holy Spirit. Paul was an apostle, yet he never claimed to be the only means a person had in order to understand the gospel.
I also have a problem with what she said about Campus Crusade for Christ.....she says it's faith outside of the grace of God, and that it is unproductive. I was a part of Campus Crusade in college. She's calling it idolotry....and she insinuates that all Christians outside of her organization or her teachings are idoloters.
Christianity is all about a personal relationship with God. It is not dependent on what organization or group you belong to. I had a very real experience with God on Campus Crusade's Big Break trips. It's never the event, but it's God Himself who changes hearts. It's an experience of God that's important....it's meeting with Him.
The stuff she's talking about - being renewed and stuff - that only comes from a personal relationship with God. It's an intimate relationship with Him.
Some of the stuff she is talking about is okay....but I would stay away from her teachings. There are plenty of other Christians that you could listen to that are more spiritually grounded.
I'm going to give you some of the sermons that I've heard that are right in line with Scripture. You could listen to them just as you listen to her. I would try not to listen to her much.
She is getting people to rely on angels too much. Jesus never asked people to rely on angels. Jesus relied on the Father. She is quoting verses out of context in order to support her teaching on relying on angels. I don't like this. It is like she is giving angels all the glory. There is only one angel that I know of that wants to be worshiped and take the place of God, and that would be Satan. I question the spiritual source of her teachings. I say stay far, far away from JoAnne Cremer.
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I was wondering if you could tell me why you call yourself an Apostle....and also why others in the second 8th week ministry call themselves apostles. I was also wondering if you could explain more what you believe the gospel message is.
The reason I'm doing this is because a friend of mine asked me what I thought of you. I had never heard of you or your ministry program before....so I wanted you to answer those questions for me. Thank you.
"Apostle" JoAnne Cremer's response to me:
From: Apostle JoAnne Cremer
Dear Melissa,
I identify my calling because it is important for Christians to know who to come to to receive their accredited education to Christ and the New Covenant. Apostles are the authorized office of the Government of God to disseminate the gospel. The early apostles also identied their calling too. This is not a boast, but important so that you know who is the authorized contact point for your faith. Confirmed, covenant apostles are vital for the Church, yet have been missing from the Church for my centuries and this is why so many Christians are confused, cannot overcome sin, and do not know their purpose and destiny, nor any of the spiriutal tools of the New Covenant Jesus shed His blood to provide for our salvation. They have been given man-made doctrines that tethered their faith to the things of the imagination, the aspiration, the flesh, etc. instead of Jesus Christ for the spiriutal transformation of the soul.
I have written extensively about the Apostle's Office and Second 8th Week Apostles' University on my blogs. The Second 8th Week Apostles are working around the world now and returning the Church back to the New Covenant, through accredited education to Jesus Christ's New Covenant terms.
The reason you don't hear much about this is because we are not a flamboyant multi-million dollar ministry. Our entire staff volunteers their time and gives away all the education and humanitarian services free of charge. We do not collect tithes or charge for anything. We freely give what we have freely received.
We have a full range of lessons that equip believers to walk in the fullness of Christ daily. We have a Foundation Series Training Program and a Leadership Training and Accreditation Program. Many leaders from around the world have enrolled and are now transitioning their entire congregations with our educatoin program and we have thousands upon thousands of testimonies of how Christians are experiencing daily sucess in their spiritual growth and spiritual transformation.
I would recommend you do these things.
1. Read my myspace page more carefully, as I have written alot there for visitors to gain more information.
2. Read all my blogs for more information, especially the earlier ones. For your ease I have listed out the blog titles and links at this site:
http://s8wstudentresources.com/?q=node/684
Copy that and put it in your browser window. You can peruse the titles and click on the ones you want to view easily. You can also listen to some of my sermons there.. just find the ones that mention audio file. When you listen to just one you'll gain much understanding.
3. Visit the S8W Student Resources Board and read some of the articles there and you can get a taste of what the believers who are being trained are saying.
http://s8wstudentresources.com
4. Sign up the University for the Foundation Series Training Program. Its free and self paced, via Distance Learning.
http://www.second8thweek.com
I hope these pieces of information have been helpful to you my sister.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to write me back. I'll be in prayer for you :)
Yours in Christ,
Apostle JoAnne Cremer
my response to JoAnne's message, which she never replied to:
I wanted to thank you for responding to me. I do have some further questions....
What do you think of the Holy Spirit? What do you think of the Holy Spirit's role in the life of a believer?
The reason I'm asking this is because I find what you're telling me to be problematic and contrary to Scripture. See, from what I'm reading of what you said, you've removed the Holy Spirit from the life of a Christian.
Why are only apostles able to share the gospel? I believe that the Holy Spirit equips all believers to share the gospel.
I also do not think that lack of "apostles" is the cause for some Christians being confused and not being able to overcome sin. It never has been in the power of men, even apostles, that people can overcome sin. It's only by the Holy Spirit. All Christians can rely on the Holy Spirit and be led by Him. Everyone who declares Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior has a personal relationship with God. He convicts of sin, and the things we need to work on in our life. That's what Scripture says, and that's been my own experience.
It's also the Holy Spirit, and Him alone, who leads people to the truth. He is the champion of truth....He leads us, affirms for us that we belong to God...He equips us with the knowledge and spiritual gifts that we can do to glorify Him, He leads us in the direction we need to go. He's God.
You also seem to be implying that it's only through your ministry program that believers can understand the truth and can understand the gospel....about Jesus' blood shed on the cross. What about the Holy Spirit leading people to the truth and reminding them of it?
Furthermore, it is the Holy Spirit who equips the believer. It is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us and changes us. It is from Him that I learn and grow. He trains me in the truth.
(To see what I specifically am writing in response to, please see what I have bolded in response to you)
Let me explain better...how do you veiw the following verses:
JN 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth.
JN 14:25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
JN 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
JN 16:5 "Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, ..Where are you going?' 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
JN 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
GAL 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Here are my reactions to watching three of her online teaching videos, and this is what I wrote to my friend who was asking me to listen to JoAnne:
Just as you requested, I'll listen to 3 of her talks.
My fourth impression of her
Yes, He can...He can do miracles....
But, really, I care about you, Guy. I really think that Apostle JoAnne is running more of a cult than anything else. She's telling you that you can only learn the truth from her and her Apostelistic organization.
That's contrary to biblical teaching. It really is. I'm afraid that you're depending too much on her. I'm afraid that she is misleading you. That's why I really think you need to get biblical truth from other sources as well.
It's dangerous for Christians to put all their faith in just one teacher or organization. It's Christ, and only Him that matters. All Christians that I know get their teachings from more than just one source. For instance me - I have read several Christian books, I read the Bible, I have a relationship with God and learn from Him, I go to four churches - two when I'm at home (one is the church I grew up in and the other is a church that I've been going to), two when I'm at school (one that I sometimes go to with friends from school, and one that I normally attend on Sunday mornings). I also have Christian friends that I learn from. I don't just learn from one denomination/church/Christian setting either. I've learned a lot from Big Break, Christmas Conference, Niagara 2000....just in my daily walk with God.
I don't just rely on one source, and ultimately, I don't just rely on humans. The most important thing is to rely on God.
I'm warning you about this because I care about you....if you only rely on what Apostle JoAnne says, you're setting yourself up to trust in humans and not God, and you're allowing yourself to be able to be led into a cult.
I put the sermons up there because I wanted you to be able to have something to compare JoAnne's teachings to. I wanted you to have another source other than just her....and they're really deep stuff. I got a lot out of them. The sermons are from several different sources - (names of various Christian pastors), and some others. They all speak the truth out of their love for God.
Please, I'm begging you, listen to at least one every week.
Because if what Apostle JoAnne is teaching is correct, then it should line up with all other Christian teachings, by other Christians who are led by the Spirit.
I know for certain that the people who I gave you the sermons from are led by the Spirit. Their words line up with every other Spirit led Christian that I have ever read, heard, or seen.
If there is any question that her teachings do not line up with the Spirit, then it should cause you to question her teachings. I know that you think she's led by the Spirit....and if she is, then there would be no problem in comparing it to other Christians.
You see, there is only one Holy Spirit, and what He tells one Christian cannot be in contradiction to what He tells another Christian, as far as teachings and doctrine is concerned. He does give some Christians more understanding on a topic than others, but there is still no contradiction. This is why it's very rich to be able to listen to the teachings from different Christians. All teachings from the Spirit should compliment and supplement other teachings. This is what I know to be true.
If JoAnne's teachings are in contradiction, that means that she's not getting it all from the Holy Spirit, and you need to be cautious....and I would say stop all connections with her.
All pastors should be scrutinized....if they are teaching false stuff, then you shouldn't listen to them. It means that they are a false teacher or a false prophet.
What makes Apostle JoAnne sound like a cult is her instistence that people can only learn the truth through her apostlistic program. She also is trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit.
I do trust that you have good judgment, but even people with good judgment can be deceived and led into a cult. Jesus warned about this. In these times we have to be especially careful.
There are several sources of witness that you can have to know God's will....(The following stuff is taken from the Alpha Course booklet)
1) Commanding Scripture - it needs to line up with Scripture. If it doesn't, then that means that it's not from God.
Example: "do not commit adultry"
you don't have to wonder if it's God's will for you to have sex outside of marriage. It's commanded in Scripture not to have sex outside of marriage.
2.) Compelling Spirit - do you feel compelled by the Spirit, you feel like an intense urge....like He's leading you to do something or not do something. If He gives you a strong desire, or you know something is against the Spirit....and He will let you know, this is another source
3.) Common Sense - God gave you a mind to reason with.
4.) Counsel of the saints - (saints meaning other believers in Jesus) - what about your fellow Christian friends....if they confirm it, then that is a stronger indication of something. If they strongly discourage you from something, that too is another strong indicator.
5.) Circumstancial signs - this is like God opening the door by arranging something in your life to allow for it to happen, or putting something in your life that leads to it.
Now, here's the caution, you have to be very careful not to just rely on any one of these, as they can all mislead you. But, if all 5 of these things seems to agree, and you have really talked to God about it and spent a lot of time with Him on it...really sought Him on the issue, then you probably know the answer to something.
I'm not saying that JoAnne is a cult, but I am saying that she has many characteristics of running a cult.....that's my caution to you. I do believe that God has His hand on you, but that doesn't mean that everything Apostle JoAnne says is truth. Just because God is definitely changing your life doesn't mean that you need to put all your trust in JoAnne.
I'll watch it, and I still have two more of Apostle JoAnne's lectures to listen to, as promised...I just haven't done that yet. I said I would listen to them, and I will. I'll give you my comments...
but my main problems with her still exist....it's right on her MySpace page. She says that a person needs to go through her Aposlte training program stuff in order to understand the Bible. The other problem is how she is taking the place of the Holy Spirit. Those two problems are major for me, and I feel strongly about this.
You see, "all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." (1 Corinthians 10:23) This goes with biblical teachings too...it's something that God has shown me, connected to that verse. Just because a particular pastor or teacher or person quotes from the Bible does not mean they have truth. Many groups use the Bible and twist it. Not everyone who conducts a Bible study is doing so in alignment with Scripture and the Holy Spirit. Not all Bible studies are good, just because they are Bible studies. They are not always beneficial.
I'll watch the video and let you know what I think, though. :)
Here is my opinion of the video you sent me:
It's the Holy Spirit who teaches....
something bothers me about Apostle JoAnne, and I can't quite put my finger on it.....
It's like it's all head stuff....I don't know exaclty how to explain it....but she's talking intellectually and out of her head......and maybe that's part of what bothers me about her
I have a hard time seeing where she's getting some of the stuff from the Bible passages she cites.....
it just feels that something's missing in her preaching, as if she's not truly talking out of her heart. This is the impression I get.
She has no passion for God, and I find her teachings to be full of a lot of fluff, they seem fakey, and they are about as stimulating as staring at a blank wall.
Here are my impressions after listing to another of her teachings:
I'm listening to the tutors and governors one....
I still feel like she's trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit who regenerates man....I think she's totally eliminating Him from everything. She also seems to be saying that angels are now taking the Holy Spirit's place.
Another important thing is...do you have a Bible with the New Testament in it?
If you don't:
http://www.biblegateway.com
I suggest reading either the New International Version (NIV) or New American Standard Bible (NASB) because they are easier to understand than the King James Version, which is what she's using.
This is extremely important that you are able to read the Bible yourself, and not just rely on what a person says. You need to make sure that everything that you read and learn is consistent with Scripture.
I don't agree with her talking about angels doing all that stuff....it's actually the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual gifts....not the angels. The Holy Spirit is God...not an angel. She's replacing other things with the Holy Spirit. That's a huge problem. That's setting people up to possibly be deceived by a false spirit....by angels that are actually demonic. This is what happens with Jehovah's Witnesses. They claim that their revelation is from "angels of light." This is what happened with the guy who started Mormonism. This is what happens with many cult leaders.
She's also saying that we can't understand perfectly unless we are under an Apostle. Paul never claimed to be on the level of the Holy Spirit. Paul was an apostle, yet he never claimed to be the only means a person had in order to understand the gospel.
I also have a problem with what she said about Campus Crusade for Christ.....she says it's faith outside of the grace of God, and that it is unproductive. I was a part of Campus Crusade in college. She's calling it idolotry....and she insinuates that all Christians outside of her organization or her teachings are idoloters.
Christianity is all about a personal relationship with God. It is not dependent on what organization or group you belong to. I had a very real experience with God on Campus Crusade's Big Break trips. It's never the event, but it's God Himself who changes hearts. It's an experience of God that's important....it's meeting with Him.
The stuff she's talking about - being renewed and stuff - that only comes from a personal relationship with God. It's an intimate relationship with Him.
Some of the stuff she is talking about is okay....but I would stay away from her teachings. There are plenty of other Christians that you could listen to that are more spiritually grounded.
I'm going to give you some of the sermons that I've heard that are right in line with Scripture. You could listen to them just as you listen to her. I would try not to listen to her much.
She is getting people to rely on angels too much. Jesus never asked people to rely on angels. Jesus relied on the Father. She is quoting verses out of context in order to support her teaching on relying on angels. I don't like this. It is like she is giving angels all the glory. There is only one angel that I know of that wants to be worshiped and take the place of God, and that would be Satan. I question the spiritual source of her teachings. I say stay far, far away from JoAnne Cremer.
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