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  • "Actually "Show No Mercy" has enough of punk influence already, especially at its fast moments." The riffing is mostly Judas Priest & NWOBHM style riffs, just sped up. When compared to a lot of later Slayer, the rhythm isn't as thick and heavy, the solos aren't as atonal and chaotic, and the leads aren't raw. All these are a feature of HxC. For example, later Slayer has a lot more atonal solos, as Black Flag does. Sure it has enough Punk influence to be Thrash but SNM is (mostly) the Speed Metal side of Thrash Metal (as is a lot of Megadeth.)
  • Actually I don't understand at all why do you say that it's "more fast than heavy" in relation to the next Slayer's albums. >>> I wasn't comparing Slayer albums. I just don't consider "Show No Mercy" to be that heavy. What stands out to me more is the speed of the riffs. If you want to compare though, "Hell Awaits" is a lot slower in places (listen to the intro of the title track) but it's certainly heavier. A bit like ...and Justice For All, which is also slower but heavy in a crushing, almost Doom Metal like, manner.
  • Regarding all this discussion about "heaviness" I think it's too subjective. Some people would say that only trad doom metal and its extreme derivatives are heavy. In my opinion it makes sense. I personally try to avoid resorting to the "heaviness" at all, while talking about music. Lastly "heaviness" is a bad criterion to argue whether nu metal is metal or not, since it's obviously heavier/rougher than Stratovarius or Edguy, for example.
  • Actually "Show No Mercy" has enough of punk influence already, especially at its fast moments. What mainly distinguishes it from the next release, is noticeable "Iron Maiden-ish" melodic influence (that had vanished soon), not a lack of hadcore punk itself. Actually I don't understand at all why do you say that it's "more fast than heavy" in relation to the next Slayer's albums.
  • Also I would say the Punk makes Thrash heavy, not the Metal. Listen to Thrash without much Punk influence like "Show No Mercy" and "Rust In Peace" and it's more fast than heavy.
  • all those subgenres are considerably heavier than nu (and thus closer to metal)." Find me some Folk or Gothic Metal heavier than [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwatsvkKA9I&feature=youtu.be&t=53s]Caustic Method - "The Virus" ][/url] or [url=https://www.reverbnation.com/iburnmusic/song/12800109-lashing-out]iBurn - "Lashing Out"[/url]
  • Yeah, I feel the same way about the modern kind, for the most part... Metallic hardcore is really good imo, but the newer bands are only good if you grew up with them. At least that's the case with me; nostalgia rules over all else. Nobody actually enjoys KSE without the childhood memories, right??? And trash73, I'm really not trying to differ with you or anything, it's just that all those subgenres are considerably heavier than nu (and thus closer to metal). I suppose you're right about the stigma though. I don't feel strongly about distancing myself from nu, but I just think it's far too soft and random (or varied, in this setting) to be considered metal. Alt-rock is a pretty appropriate catch-all term in my mind, but then again I'm really drunk right now and as I'm writing this I've completely forgotten what I'm talking about. Sorry.
  • I don't think anyone is arguing whether Nu Metal is pure Metal, it clearly isn't. It is where you draw the line as to "what is Metal" is where some fans feel there is a stigma against Nu Metal. Particularly, when the borders of Metal are stretched elsewhere to suit some bands (e.g. Lifelover - Post-Punk, Sunn o))) - Drone/Ambient etc.) but the borders are cut off for some Nu Metal bands which are closer to Metal (early Mudvayne, Ektomorf, later Slipknot, Coal Chamber etc.)
  • "I just think it's far-fetched to consider bands that draw nearly equal inspiration from hip-hop/electro/funk as rock/metal to belong to the same style that bred doom, death, and speed metal." You could also argue Thrash Metal and Grindcore takes equal inspiration from Hardcore and Crust Punk, Folk Metal takes equal inspiration from Folk music, Gothic Metal takes equal inspiration from Goth Rock etc. Plus, Faith No More are considered Metal (and they fuse Metal with 2 of the genres you mentioned and many others.) http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Faith_No_More/983
  • "What type of metalcore are you thinking of? The modern kind, metallic hardcore, or are you just being general? " I'm thinking of both. I'd say that 90s metallic hardcore sounds like a better version of groove metal in general... or something like that. Late 00s metalcore is often a poppy chugging melo-death, bordering sometimes on alternative rock and etc. I don't consider both as "shitty" anymore though.
  • vv What type of metalcore are you thinking of? The modern kind, metallic hardcore, or are you just being general? I think I missed your point. Metalcore is either a shitty form of hardcore, or in your opinion, a shitty form of metal? Um...
  • I just think it's far-fetched to consider bands that draw nearly equal inspiration from hip-hop/electro/funk as rock/metal to belong to the same style that bred doom, death, and speed metal. Of course, how much they sound like this or that depends on the band, but most bands in the genre ultimately fall closer to alt-rock. Most, not all. I could, for instance, go along with calling Otep metal, but the majority of leading nu bands aren't even close to as heavy as them. I simply don't hear the reason why you'd wanna toss all of those bands under "metal", but maybe I'm alone here.
  • "Metalcore isn't a subgenre of metal." Metalcore has much more in common with metal music than hardcore. When I was into hardcore punk, I rejected all metalcore (including non-mainstream 90s one) as shitty metal subgenre (I considered that all metal is crap back then). And then again, yes, a lot of modern metal is as far away from metal as nu metal. Moreover, heavy metal has already started to erode back in the 80s, since thrash metal had became leading underground subgenre, and thrash metal was a merger of a more aggressive side of heavy metal or speed metal and hardcore punk. First wave black metal was even more punkish.
  • it wasn't my intention to start an argument around that. It was my intention to bring up the fact that that Metal isn't clearly defined. Both Heavy Metal and Nu Metal stem from Rock but are "heavier." You could find a general rule to define Metal but there would always be exceptions. In philosophy, generally, when there is no line of definition it is understood that the subject has no meaning. Blackgaze, Ambient Black Metal, Drone Doom & Funeral Doom etc. are just as far away from Metal as a lot of Nu Metal. A lot of Nu Metal isn't too far away from Soulfly & Devildriver which is considered Metal.
  • Not arguing with that. I'm saying nu metal isn't a metal subgenre.
  • " And nu metal is essentially just heavier alt-rock. Just pointing that out..." And Heavy Metal is essentially just heavier Hard Rock. Just pointing that out.
  • Metalcore isn't a subgenre of metal. And nu metal is essentially just heavier alt-rock. Just pointing that out...
  • I've always been kind of a hipster douche though. I don't see a point in sugarcoating or denying why you enjoy a genre.
  • "Full of self-conscious metrosexuals playing at who's gonna growl the loudest to make the fangirls wet their pants" That's the appeal, though! I don't get why people point that out like it's bad. No other Metal subgenre does melodrama and cheesiness the same way. Power Metal is ultra cheesy, but in a different manner. The whiny vocals and slick production are my favorite things about it, despite being why most people hate it.
  • With that being said with the internet around, this tag is majorly redundant lol.
  • Haha, well not everyone knows the difference between metalcore and power metal, they just think it's all metal. Like Limp Bizkit, Manowar and Deicide people tend to lump it all as metal.
  • Such a redundant tag. Name me one band that is just plain METAL. Not death metal, thrash metal, black metal or whatever... just METAL. If there's one real use for tags, it's classifying the incredibly vast musical differences among artists. In my view, the genre metal is simply way to general... it's almost like one step away from tagging something with "music".
  • @bobo9390 Born Of Osiris, Trivium, Avenged Sevenfold, Converge, Between the Buried and Me, Betraying the Martyrs, The Dillinger Escape Plan... is it Metalcore enough for you? Like TheOnlyMAD said earlier, "Only people who have heard very few metal bands can hate the genre". Digzh wrote "Worst genre ever for being a fan" depsites having mostly if not only Metalcore bands in his library...Yes of course, I've exaggerated, there are good Metalcore bands but it's still one of the most cliché and mass produced subgenres of Metal, along with Deathcore, Nu Metal & cie. Full of self-conscious metrosexuals playing at who's gonna growl the loudest to make the fangirls wet their pants. To see someone bash a whole genre just after having listened to such a watered down subgenre is ridiculous.
  • https://humanfuture.bandcamp.com/ Our debut album, 'Spectrum', is available to download for free and vinyl can be ordered from http://www.holyroarrecords.com/categories/truthseeker
  • "@Digzh Get back when you'll stop listening to gay Metalcore LOL" You don't even listen to any Gay Metalcore yet you think your opinion on it is relevant. Lol ok
  • metal and hardcore isn't same. Why everybody still didn't understand this ?
  • @Digzh Get back when you'll stop listening to gay Metalcore LOL
  • Don't miss this one too, https://youtu.be/swDaC3pnieQ
  • Reggaeton metal? lol
  • Reykon is metal? WTF?
  • Only people who have heard very few metal bands can hate the genre.
  • Alice in Chains \\m/
  • Worst genre ever for being a fan. Just saying.
  • Free to download: https://rivalyouthcultsemerge.bandcamp.com/album/harp Atmospheric Black Metal mixed with genres like Post-rock and Shoegaze
  • someone should make fun of me for writing two lines of comment
  • today i learned i'm less of a sheep if i take all my opinions from something less popular. thanks metal shoutbox !!
  • Metal rules!
  • definitely the worst tag ive ever seen. even worse than ponyrape
  • Uhh, no it's not. If you're purposely doing something because it's not mainstream or bashing things that are mainstream, then you're still letting yourself and your interests be influenced by what's popular. It's not impressive. [3]
  • https://windswithhands.bandcamp.com
  • [url=https://www.facebook.com/imnotrightinthehead/photos/a.233465075376.274941.212641675376/10155447848405377/?type=1&theater]how i feel when people complain over metal bands that are not metal such as Babymetal[/url]
  • Uhh, no it's not. If you're purposely doing something because it's not mainstream or bashing things that are mainstream, then you're still letting yourself and your interests be influenced by what's popular. It's not impressive. [2]
  • "If sheep behaviour refers to following the flock, stupidly following mainstream trends is more of a sheep behaviour than blindly going against them" Uhh, no it's not. If you're purposely doing something because it's not mainstream or bashing things that are mainstream, then you're still letting yourself and your interests be influenced by what's popular. It's not impressive.
  • Worst tag ever
  • http://metalby.org/
  • http://img.4plebs.org/boards/x/image/1400/16/1400165499709.jpg
  • "Bashing all things mainstream is just as much sheep behaviour as only listening to mainstream stuff. If not more." If sheep behaviour refers to following the flock, stupidly following mainstream trends is more of a sheep behaviour than blindly going against them, since that flock is larger. Both ways are pretty close-minded, though.
  • when people say they like metal but only listen to the big 5
  • http://ulozto.net/xMgypndf/ciltibikue-rar
  • there are you can download metal torrent http://music-torrent.net/metal

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