New albums that don't suffer from loudness war?

    • relu84 disse...
    • Usuário
    • Ago 7 2007, 20h10

    New albums that don't suffer from loudness war?

    I recently discovered the Loudness War problem while searching for the reason new albums sound like crap.

    So I decided to ask a question over here - do you know of any recent albums produced "properly", that don't suffer from compression and limiting?

    I'm interested in rock and metal music mostly, but any other will do well too (pop/jazz/blues/anything).

    I can recommend the latest Iron Maiden album, A Matter Of Life And Death. The producer, Kevin Shirley, mixed the album and decided (with the band) that it sounds good enough and they did not do mastering (the decision was made after the previous album, Dance of Death, which probably has the poorest sound ever ;)) - the vocals on the album sound a little bit poor, but that's how this band records today (live in studio - usualy one take only). The album sounds brilliant in comparison to other today's CD's - there is no over-compression, the drums sound like they should, etc.

    I thought this album would start a new trend in the music industry to not master albums at all. But I was wrong... I wonder how other albums would sound from other artists, who do not care about sounding 'live' on a studio album...

    Eh, this post is getting too long, so I'll end ;)

    Thanks in advance for any "properly" produced albums!

    ps - what can we do to get more attention to the problem?

    -- Przemek

    • Lexx66 disse...
    • Usuário
    • Set 29 2007, 10h35

    New albums that don't suffer from loudness war?

    I can advise to try buying vinyl versions of new albums. They are usually mastered differently than cd versions and don't suffer from heavy limiting.
    One example is widely discussed RHCP's Stadium Arcadium. I bought the vinyl recently, and it's not bad. Maybe still not the best sounding album in my collection, but one thing I can say for sure: it's dynamic range is really huge! I tried to make a copy on R2R tape, and when the VU-meters were around -3 dB, the peak +6 dB indicators were flashing wildly!

    Unfortunately, the vinyls are quite expensive today.

    • vitos disse...
    • Usuário
    • Dez 11 2007, 21h04
    I don't know if you are interested in this, but I find The Triptic by Sweet Noise mastered quite well. I like the nice dynamics of this album building the atmosphere and balance kept between ethnical voices, electronic and hard rock instruments.

    And moving to another genres - movie soundtracks can sound very pleasant and clean. Soundtracks for two last parts of "Pirates of the Caribbean" by Hans Zimmer are a good example.

    Editado por vitos em Fev 25 2008, 18h43
  • Been looking through my library - these are all the albums from the last three years I have with a replaygain album gain of -7dB or better:

    Amon Tobin - Foley Room (2007) -6.81 dB
    Efdemin - Efdemin (2007) -3.87 dB
    Nina Nastasia & Jim White - You Follow Me (2007) -3.06 dB
    Shellac - Excellent Italian Greyhound (2007) -3.25 dB
    The Tuss - Confederation Trough (2007) -4.28 dB
    The Tuss - Rushup Edge (2007) -6.92 dB
    Boards Of Canada - Trans Canada Highway (2006) -5.17 dB
    Burial - Burial (2006) -5.33 dB
    Donald Fagen - Morph The Cat (2006) -4.97 dB
    jesu - conqueror (2006) -5.26 dB
    Kuricorder Pops Orchestra - Yotsuba&♪ (2006) -1.68 dB
    Matmos - The Rose Has Teeth In The Mouth Of A Beast (2006) -6.44 dB
    Nina Nastasia - On Leaving (2006) -2.30 dB
    The Knife - Silent Shout (2006) -6.65 dB
    栗コーダポップスオーケストラ - よつばと♪組曲「冬将軍」 -5.23 dB
    Autechre - Untilted (2005) -3.56 dB
    Broadcast - Tender Buttons (2005) -6.93 dB
    Coil - The Ape Of Naples (2005) -6.92 dB
    Guapo - Black Oni (2005) -5.24 dB
    Kid606 - Resilience (2005) -1.73 dB
    The Books - Lost And Safe (2005) -6.03 dB
    The Flashbulb - Kirlian Selections (2005) -6.46 dB
    Wilderness - Wilderness (2005) -4.84 dB

    For reference: -3 to -7 is what would have been normal for a pop/rock cd 10-15 years ago. The current worst offenders are around -13.

  • I think Stormlord - The Gorgon Cult is pretty amazing for an album released in 2004. I has hardly any clipping (less than 10 for the whole album) and the average RMA power is between -14dB and -13dB.

    Average RMA power and clipping values were calculated with Amadeus Pro.

    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Abr 2 2008, 6h09


    Is there any free software out there that can be used to calculate these figures?

    I'm contemplating setting up a site simple site where people can post these values for albums they own. Interesting information...

  • Replaygain can be calculated with Winamp or foobar2000. There should be a couple of tools for RMS, but I can't think of any right now.

    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Abr 7 2008, 16h10


    would anyone be interested in such a site?

  • Sure, a site cataloging album's average RMS and number of clipped samples would be quite useful.

    BTW, I use Amadeus Pro on my Mac to calculate these values. It's shareware but you can use the program indefinitely (saving files and some advanced stuff is disabled).

  • Does anyone know of any great metal with High Dynamic Range? Also, what are some decently affordable and good record players?

  • Its cheaper to get an old turntable. New turntables wouldn't require as much technical work but they are much more expensive.

    You should listen to more Neil Young.
  • Nisstyre56 said:
    Does anyone know of any great metal with High Dynamic Range?

    Any old Annihilator album (ex: King Of The Kill)
    Death albums except the last one
    Meshuggah - I
    Dark Suns - Existence + Grave Human Genuine
    Agalloch - The Mantle
    Mors Principium Est - Liberation = Termination
    Capharnaum - Fractured
    Longing for Dawn - One Lonely Path

    These have been compressed but not too much:
    Judas Priest - Painkiller
    Swallow the Sun - Hope
    Lost Horizon - Awakening The World
    Diablo - Eternium

    Can't think of any more at the moment.

  • Thanks for the suggestions, the only one I already listen to is Meshuggah, not a huge fan though.

  • Apparently Franz Ferdinand's self-titled album is respectable (I looked at a waveform of Take Me Out and it indeed looks rather respectable for a 2004 release). Another album that I was surprised to find had good dynamics is This Is Hardcore by Pulp. Yeah, it's 1998, but by then most releases were already affected to varying degrees.

    Maybe I'll make a list of more and report back later! (By the way, wrdlbrmpf, surprised to see IDM isn't as bad as most rock these days. Venetain Snares is a big exception though, so is Chris Clark.)

    Oh, one last thing concerning vinyl versions. You can find vinyl rips (aka needledrops) online sometimes. Personally, while I have nothing against vinyl, I have an objection to having to buy an entirely new setup just to get the sound that should be on the CD in the first place - so I don't!

  • [spam]


    Fuck forum signatures lol.
    Editado por hjbardenhagen em Dez 25 2010, 14h30
    • relu84 disse...
    • Usuário
    • Ago 7 2008, 11h12
    I was pretty surprised with Galahad - Empires Never Last. The album replay gain is at -6.50 which is exceptionaly good for a rock album. And it was released in 2006!

    Thanks to this, the album sounds really great, there's space for everything. Too bad well mastered albums are so few today... unfortunately, the loudness war doesn't seem to end!

  • Ivan Pavlov vs Richard Chartier - Chessmachine

    album gain: +10.84dB
    album peak: 1.308854 (mp3)

    Now that's what I call dynamic!

  • All of Porcupine Tree's albums are mastered impeccably

    • relu84 disse...
    • Usuário
    • Ago 24 2008, 17h50
    Yeah, Porcupine Tree's albums sound exceptionaly good, even though they're also pretty loud (In Absentia, Deadwing), but if I didn't look at the wave in Adobe Audition, I wouldn't know ;)

    Now, Steven Wilson is mastering everything himself (Fear of a Blank Planet, the new solo album by Richard Barbieri, and a new Wilson's solo project), cause he was pissed with the loudness race. Maybe some people will look to Steven Wilson as an example, that you CAN make a record that's not loud as hell and be succesfull.

    Oh, I'd also like to add that I love Porcupine Tree's DVD 5.1 surround releases. I don't have good enough speakers to fully enjoy it, but they still sound extremely good and use the 5.1 speaker system to full extent. Haven't found any other DVD-Audio release sounding that good, though I had high expectations regarding Dream Theater's "Systematic Chaos" - sure, it sounds great (you can hear Rudess's keyboard a lot more clearly) but suffers from... teh loudness war!

  • [deleted]

    Editado por Quicksand227 em Abr 28 2013, 10h38
  • Well Steve Wilson produced Opeth's Damnation/Deliverance albums as well as Blackwater Park. Dunno if he mastered them, but they sound pretty damn good anyway.

  • Also, all of Godspeed You! Black Emperor's stuff is mastered very nicely, with a wide dynamic range on everything.

    Cept' for maybe Yanqui U.X.O , that one seems kinda loud.

    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Out 12 2008, 17h29

    re: Larson H's idea for a web site posting RMS fugures

    Larson, I think the web site is a great idea. It seems to me it could be a good way to spread the message of what's lacking in modern recordings.

    • Nepthys disse...
    • Usuário
    • Jan 11 2009, 15h38
    The Seldom Seen Kid by Elbow. They received all sorts of awards for it, so that's probably also a good sign regarding the loudness war.

    I read Chinese Democracy is quite dynamic as well.

    And the new Franz Ferdinand album. It's such a relief not to be attacked by the noise for once.

  • dredg

    First: Hi I'm new to the group!
    All albums by dredg are mastered quite nicely, here's an example:

    Peak RMS Filename

    -5.97 dB -18.45 dB Bug Eyes.mp3
    -7.55 dB -17.96 dB Catch Without Arms.mp3
    -6.72 dB -17.23 dB Hungover on a Tuesday.mp3
    -7.98 dB -17.96 dB Jamais Vu.mp3
    -7.32 dB -19.03 dB Matroshka.mp3
    -6.33 dB -16.89 dB Not That Simple.mp3
    -7.85 dB -18.77 dB Ode to the Sun.mp3
    -7.91 dB -17.26 dB Planting Seeds.mp3
    -6.68 dB -16.87 dB Sang Real.mp3
    -7.54 dB -17.43 dB Spitshine.mp3
    -7.22 dB -17.79 dB Tanbark.mp3
    -6.35 dB -16.79 dB Uplifting News (Non-LP Version).mp3
    -6.35 dB -16.76 dB Zebraskin.mp3

    Just for "fun" I added Death magnetic, as a comparison:
    Peak RMS Filename

    over -5.53 dB That Was Just Your Life.mp3
    over -5.35 dB The End of the Line.mp3
    over -4.35 dB Broken, Beat & Scarred.mp3
    over -4.00 dB The Day That Never Comes.mp3
    over -4.18 dB All Nightmare Long.mp3
    over -4.11 dB Cyanide.mp3
    over -6.45 dB The Unforgiven III.mp3
    over -4.00 dB The Judas Kiss.mp3
    over -5.18 dB Suicide & Redemption.mp3
    over -3.76 dB My Apocalypse.mp3

    (over means over 0 dB)

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