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CBS handed over USER DATA (including IP addresses) to the RIAA

 
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    SEE LAST.FM LATEST THREAT-do as you`re told kids!! http://www.last.fm/group/The+UrbanFox+Appreciation+Society user banned for standing up to Last.fm - http://www.eyho-blog.com/2009/03/10/neo-nazis-on-last-fm-when-a-social-network-supports-national-socialists/ Alec Empire wrote about the Nazi groups on Last
    Editado por hjbardenhagen em Dez 26 2010, 5h18
  • Re:This really isn't that complicated...

    alpha said:
    Techrunch have no reason to be biased here and to be honest it's rather frustrating that fundamental questions that they are asking are not being answered. why is there no open dialogue being created by last.fm/cbs and techcrunch to resolve this issue, simply saying that techrunch is talking bullshit is really not enough here, that's far too easy to do on your behalf


    Techcrunch have EVERY reason to be biased, in February they released a story with very little information or evidence claiming that last.fm had handed over information to the RIAA, this was then denied repeatedly by last.fm, THEREFORE this casts doubts over the credibility of techcrunch, especially if they're relying on "whistleblowers".

  • [spam]

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    SEE LAST.FM LATEST THREAT-do as you`re told kids!! http://www.last.fm/group/The+UrbanFox+Appreciation+Society user banned for standing up to Last.fm - http://www.eyho-blog.com/2009/03/10/neo-nazis-on-last-fm-when-a-social-network-supports-national-socialists/ Alec Empire wrote about the Nazi groups on Last
    Editado por hjbardenhagen em Dez 26 2010, 5h18
  • Jeez, John_Murphy: if you're so unbelievably pissed off with Last.fm, and you're not using the site for it's primary purpose (132 plays since August '08)... why are you still here?

    • akrde disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 11h16
    Russ said:
    This is massively off-topic but I will reply. If you want to carry on the discussion, you can PM me.

    akrde said:
    Many users found out that much of the streamable music just disappeared in the last days and weeks. There are several threads about it in the forums.

    What's the cause for this massive loss of streamable music?

    Labels, that want more money which Last.fm don't want to pay or isn't being able to pay? If not, why are many labels pulling off their music from Last.fm's music catalogue?

    Or is it just a bug and we don't have to worry about it because it will be fixed soon?


    This is partially a bug and partially correct. It's nothing to do with the labels removing their content, but it is due to us tightening up certain licensing restrictions. I know this is a bit of a woolly answer, but hopefully things will improve again soon.


    @Russ: Thanks for the quick reply and i will get back to it later. But let's discuss it in the forums and not in PMs, because i know that many people are interested in this issue too. Hope this is ok for you too...

    • Death_CZ disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 11h19
    maz35 said:
    norz said:
    With Techcrunch censoring the comments, I lost any faith I could have in this website. If they deal with constructive criticism by deleting and filtering the comments, how can they be trusted?
    With no evidence produced, this looks like a campaign of fear, uncertainty and doubt.

    Since following this story, I haven't seen any signs of last.fm censoring the discussions on their site.
    Plus I've known Last.fm and its team for a long time now, and have more trust in the them than in a blogger who censors comments on his blog.


    Exactly my sentiments


    I've read all comments and have the same feeling about this issue.

    Impares nascimur, pares morimur.
    • maz35 disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 11h20
    John Murphy, If they really banned anyone who criticized them then why are their so few banned users on those huge long threads of discontent, eg the old bring back last fm one, the one about subscription charges, the recent may 20 update etc etc.

  • [spam]

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    SEE LAST.FM LATEST THREAT-do as you`re told kids!! http://www.last.fm/group/The+UrbanFox+Appreciation+Society user banned for standing up to Last.fm - http://www.eyho-blog.com/2009/03/10/neo-nazis-on-last-fm-when-a-social-network-supports-national-socialists/ Alec Empire wrote about the Nazi groups on Last
    Editado por hjbardenhagen em Dez 26 2010, 5h18
    • Russ disse...
    • Alumni
    • Mai 24 2009, 11h23
    John_Murphy said:
    Its NOT off topic because we are discussing Last retaining & providing user information to 3rd parties....or am I wrong?


    That's fine - just don't bring the thread off topic by arguing about censorship.

    Also Russ, you avoided answering about retaining photos of former users....An answer please (still ON topic about Last retaining info)

    Deleted photos are stored for a fairly long amount of time on our CDN (content delivery network). We're aware that's not too great and we're working on deleting them quicker.

  • [spam]

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    SEE LAST.FM LATEST THREAT-do as you`re told kids!! http://www.last.fm/group/The+UrbanFox+Appreciation+Society user banned for standing up to Last.fm - http://www.eyho-blog.com/2009/03/10/neo-nazis-on-last-fm-when-a-social-network-supports-national-socialists/ Alec Empire wrote about the Nazi groups on Last
    Editado por hjbardenhagen em Dez 26 2010, 5h18
    • _oao disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 11h32
    John_Murphy said:
    I call many things here on Last censorship before with the exception of your Neo-Nazi groups which should be censored and arent. Your hypocrisy sickens me
    You may like it or not but everyone is entitled to freedom of speech.

    If those groups respect the rules of the site and/or the law they have the right to exist even if we disagree with their opinions...

  • John_Murphy said:
    I see AndreaUrbanFox picture is still being used

    well, thats just been answered.

    John_Murphy said:
    and she no longer uses this site.

    MissyFox [Last seen: last week] isn't the same as AndreaUrbanFox, then?

    "a fly crouching in a sandwich cannot comprehend how it has become more than ordinarily vulnerable" - ivor cutler
    Editado por trixietrinian em Mai 24 2009, 11h34
  • AndreaUrbanFox has been banned. That is somewhat different from deleting an account... in which case the picture would have been removed (as far as I know).

    And as far as 'censorship' goes... apart from an (understandable) removal of an emailaddress in one of your posts there has been deleted nothing of what you (or anyone else) said. Compare that with the removal of (critical) comments about the TC-articles.

    Remember to say "thank you" for the things you haven't had
  • Jester-NL said:
    rickmb said:
    Well, here's the big one: Why doesn't Last.fm give users control over their own data?
    Let's see:
    • Username - Pick one. That is about the only thing you can not change.
    • E-mail - Optional (Granted, it used to be not needed, spammers and trolls have changed that, but after sign up and activation, the account can be deleted from your settings (making recovery of a lost password impossible, but your privacy is safe))
    • Scrobbles - you can turn your client on and off. You can in- or exclude directories for scrobbling.
    • Info on your page - none is asked, and almost everything can be hidden from plain view.
    • Data on the servers - You can delete every single one of your scrobbles. You can reset your playcount. You can delete your account.

      Any more data you can not control?


    i cannot be sure the data is removed, i muss trust you, because i dont see what is running on lastfm servers. It could easy cloning lastfm database on cbs servers and none of us would know it.

    im web developer too and i know how this things work.

    Editado por madmax_cro em Mai 24 2009, 11h44
  • Even assuming the denials are true and TechCrunch is full of shit, you may want to turn off track fingerprinting in your client. Assuming the RIAA did compromise last.fm (or your ISP, for that matter), the difference between sending a track name and length and sending a track name, length and cryptographic fingerprint is the difference between hearsay and admissible evidence. By sending a fingerprint, you are proving that you have possession of a file.

    Also, if you're really paranoid, only use open-source scrobblers. Who's to say CBS didn't hand last.fm a binary-only library and order them to link it into the client, and that the client doesn't scan your hard drive for things that look like MP3s and periodically send a list over to MediaSentry or someone?

  • Fewmanchu said:
    Last.fm is in deep trouble and the best they can come up with is a weak post on their own forum? Sorry, but that's not good enough. The utter lack of communication skills has been a plague to this formerly great company...

    Also, those of you automatically puking over TechCrunch forgets that they are one of very few technology blogs that actually do admit being wrong from time to time. That's the reason for their number one position in the world.


    Yeah, because the rest of them don't claim unsubstantiated rumours as fact (or fabricate information), so have no need to admit being wrong. Also, it is standard practice to strikeout incorrect information as soon as it is found to be wrong, and this practice is adhered to across the entire of the mainstream blogosphere, so to claim that others don't correct misinformation just isn't true.

    As for their number one position in the world, bullshit. What about engadget, gizmodo, CNet blogs? They are much more respected and actually have some influence, unlike TechCrunch which is effectively the technology gutter press when it posts stories such as this.

  • @madmax_cro can you remember the law case of way back machine ?

    their reply was, if you don't want people to know, Don't put it on the internet.

    If everyone understands that, I am sure that this whole RIAA thing really doesn't matter - YOU (the user) made that data available in the first place by putting it on the internet ..... ;)

    Where you invest your love, you invest your life.
  • anorakhighst said:
    Who's to say CBS didn't hand last.fm a binary-only library and order them to link it into the client, and that the client doesn't scan your hard drive for things that look like MP3s and periodically send a list over to MediaSentry or someone?

    Yeah, you're right.

    brb, dusting off my tinfoil hat...

  • I don't care. I couldnt get in trouble for any "illegal" stuff scrobbled through Hype Machine with no proof of downloading it hah.

  • anorakhighst said:
    Even assuming the denials are true and TechCrunch is full of shit, you may want to turn off track fingerprinting in your client. Assuming the RIAA did compromise last.fm (or your ISP, for that matter), the difference between sending a track name and length and sending a track name, length and cryptographic fingerprint is the difference between hearsay and admissible evidence. By sending a fingerprint, you are proving that you have possession of a file.
    track fingerprinting uses a different protocol and is anonymous. But that's also only hearsay in the forums since it's nowhere documented or legally stated.

    • hokkos disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 13h08
    The reply by Last-fm is full of lawyer talk. They don't actually just say "it didn't happen".

    For example:
    Nobody at Last.fm knows anything about such a leak.
    Translation: Leaked by CBS, without Last.fm's knowledge.

    Any suggestion that we were complicit in transferring user data to any third party is incorrect.
    Translation: CBS did it on their behalf, therefore Last.Fm weren't complicit.

    The suggestion that CBS’s ops team provided this data is just not possible.
    Translation: Some other dept. eg legal provided the data.

    Maybe I'm just cynical, but I used to work for a company that employed lawyers to lie to tax officials on a regular basis. This isn't a blanket denial - it's full of holes and out clauses. Just what a lawyer would write.

    To all the people deleting your accounts. You really think they delete your data? Your account has its "active" flag set to "N" now, that's all.

    So for now we don't know, but we are all suspicious, it won't stop easily.

  • hokkos said:
    They don't actually just say "it didn't happen".


    Russ said:
    Either way, in this case it doesn't matter because we never gave CBS the data

    "a fly crouching in a sandwich cannot comprehend how it has become more than ordinarily vulnerable" - ivor cutler
    • hokkos disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 13h27
    Maybe CBS took the data by themselves because they have access to it.

    • dankine disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 24 2009, 13h31
    hokkos said:
    Maybe CBS took the data by themselves because they have access to it.


    actually read the thread and you would have seen that they don't.

  • i find it exceedingly unlikely that CBS's legal department would have remote access to lastfm's scrobble/IP data when the operations team don't.

    "a fly crouching in a sandwich cannot comprehend how it has become more than ordinarily vulnerable" - ivor cutler
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