Vertical Music

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Leader: phillip360
Join Policy: Open
Created on: 19 Nov 2008
Description:

Concerning temporal verticality in music with regard to static and periodic music.

"...A performance needs to start and stop, but in the absence of an overriding linearity, starting and stopping become arbitrary. The performance might have started, or stopped, earlier or later. Because the music is substantially unchanged throughout, and because it is without distinct gestures, we listen to an arbitrarily bounded segment of a potentially eternal continuum. The present that the work extends suggests itself as infinite. Past and future disappear as everything in the piece belongs within the horizon of now..." Kramer, J. D. (1988). The Time of Music. (p.386). New York, Schirmer Books.
For reviews of work related to or concerning vertical temporality in music visit, http://verticaltemporality.blogspot.com/

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phillip360

You're right about the structure of mine. It's just a crude exercise in brutalising the Gregorian 'Dies Irae' really.

December 2011
fydhws

The first, starting, guitar "melody" is played through the whole song, on one channel is normal playing on the other is reversed. Second guitar starts at the 21 sec. mark and ends at 4:15, 21 sec. before ending of the song, etc for all instruments. And for each, one of the channel is for normal, and the other for reversed playing.

December 2011
fydhws

@phillip360, yes it is, with one little mistake I overlooked. In the final mix I decided to put delay effect on the string part, so now when listened backwards the delay effect starts 1 sec earlier then the normal playing (forgot to correct that thing). Yes, you can't tell from the middle if it's palindrome. In your piece the melody that's played is finishing at the middle of the composition (and then is reversed, for the rest of the song), right? In my case there are several improvised "melody" parts, but they are changing through whole song, that's way the middle part has no meaningful way for recognizing.

December 2011
phillip360

fydhws> is that really a palindrome? I searched for the middle and listened, it is a perplexing piece. I like it in any case. Also I forgot to mention a palindromic piece that I wrote http://www.last.fm/music/Phillip+Henderson/Drones%2B%2526%2BRepetitions/Day+Of+Wrath

December 2011
phillip360

Sorry for the late reply Barmalewska, I'm busily engaged in a writing project. David Hykes? No not to my knowledge. If any member has a moment, please review this potential artist connection and add if desired.

December 2011
Barmalewska

does David Hykes belong to this?

November 2011
Shru

Connection to Skullflower, perhaps? A lot of their more recent works follow this structure, with each track largely being frozen in time (disregarding some subtle, incidental meandering.)

October 2011
Thijs_de_vries

Phrases have, until recently, pervaded all Western music, even multiply-directed and moment forms: phrases are the final remnant of linearity. But some new works show that phrase structure is not necessarily a component of music. The result is a single present stretched out into an enormous duration, a potentially infinite “now” that nonetheless feels like an instant. In music without phrases, without temporal articulation, with tonal consistency, whatever structure is in the music exists between simultaneous layers of sound, not between successive gestures. Thus, I call the time sense invoked by such music “vertical.” (Kramer 1988 p.55)

September 2011
fydhws

Thanks a lot, phillip360. I'll check out Charlemagne Palestine really soon. I like the mirrored melody idea of Bach also.

September 2011
phillip360

Hi fydhws. Two contrasting examples immediately spring to mind; The scored palindrome in J. S. Bach’s Art Of Fugue (BWV 1080), Contrapunctus 12 and 13 contain sections in which the melody line is mirrored about a horizontal axis. Also in the 'Schlingen-Blängen' recording published by New World Records (Charlemagne Palestine, 1999) the inversion of the theme seems to signal the middle of the piece and the mirrored volume and melody pivot at the centre of the timeline.

September 2011
fydhws

Hello, thanks for the membership. Recently I was experimenting with song structures, the goal was to compose piece that would sound same if you are playing forwards and backwards. Do you know some other artist who use similar methods, I'm interested how it would sound? Here is mine, if you are interested, 1234+1 levo desno (left right).

September 2011
phillip360

Thanks m_petrac there's more about Kramer here - http://verticaltemporality.blogspot.com/2008/12/review-time-of-music-new-meanings-new.html

September 2011
phillip360

The recent discussion about membership has a development. A user has applied to join but not one of their top 100 artists ever scrobbled is connected to this group. This indicates to me that there is little point in approving the application. Is liking Kramer's quote enough?

September 2011
phillip360

no frags it is not

September 2011
m_petrac

I like J.D. Kramer's qoute about music <3 .music is eternal.

September 2011
frags

So is "music that doesn't want to go anywhere" an acceptable definition?

September 2011
phillip360

I don't feel that I should personally examine every member before they may join - so in an attempt to sort this out I've changed the join policy to member approval, not sure how that works but shall we try it?

September 2011
pitchorneirda

I admit I don't know; I love this group and its connections and it's kinda perfect for me like this. I'm only disappointed to see members who don't even know any of the artists you connected with the group and who think the music they listen is 'vertical' because it's meditative or even only instrumental. Maybe set up the join policy with 'owner approval' !?

August 2011
phillip360

Point taken. Rather than see you leave pitchorneirda , how do you suggest we deal with this balance? I set the group up through inspiration from the Kramer quote at the top and I've tried to include artists whose work in some way, or in a particular instance approaches the definition. In addition I hope we're not trying to attain a high number of members, rather a quality of interested people.

August 2011
pitchorneirda

I don't want this group to become a post-rock addicts landmark ! I mean, come on, Bark Psychosis in the charts ? If everyone that has listened to Philip Glass once and loves Tim Hecker joins the group, I'll leave.

August 2011