2nd 8th Week Ministries - A Cult

 
  • 2nd 8th Week Ministries - A Cult

    This is a topic dedicated to dealing with the heretical teachings of 2nd 8th week ministries, exposing them for their false teachings, and discussing what they do.

    My goal with this topic is to warn people of them. They are a cult, and they are preying on new Christians or those who are interested in knowing about Jesus.

    Please join in this discussion if you have anything to share. Thanks.

    Prayer for those involved in the cult will be a new topic, so start the topic :)

  • There is someone on MySpace named Apostle JoAnne Cremer. She claims to be an Apostle, and she's with a group called Second 8th Week Ministries. They have online education, teachings, and they try to start churches.

    If anyone is into these teachings, you HAVE GOT TO GET OUT NOW!

    I was suspicious of her from the first time one of my friends told me about her. I listened to a couple of her lectures...there seemed to be something wrong with her teachings. She was relying on angels instead of the Holy Spirit. Also, she teaches that in order to understand the Bible you have to have an Apostle, and learn under that Apostle. That sounded like a cult to me.

    I just decided to go online to see if there were any apologetics on this ministry, and I came across this website:

    http://www.conqueringlove.com/testimony.html

    This is some really scary stuff, and it is demonic. I'm not kidding. It's spiritual warfare, andn this ministry needs to be exposed for what it is! These persons are not Apostles....they are Apostates.

    Please pass this message on to all of your friends, whether or not you are Christian.

    If you are Jewish, this is extremly important. I think that she's going after Jews to try to entice them....into this satanic, deceptive Apostasy.

    Below is a testimony from a couple who was deceived by this group, and I got it from the above website:

    This is our testimony of how we were deceived and how the Lord Jesus delivered us out from the lies we believed from the false apostle Eric (his websites are: www.second8thweek.com, ("university"), www.second8thweek.org, (Perfect faith through Apostles), www.researchoncults.org


    We will break our testimony down into 3 parts, starting September/October 2000, then into November/December 2000, then finally January/February/March 2001.


    We will be including in our testimony information about our friends, but not their names. We started doing the false teachings, through the Second 8th Week, with them and they are a part of our testimony. We live in the same town, we love them and consider them our friends, but we cannot fellowship with them anymore because they are deceived and leading others into deception as well. There also are other believers in our town that we know personally that have been deceived by the "apostle Eric" at the Second 8th Week. We love all these people and pray that they will come out of this deception, and be restored back to Jesus Christ.


    We would like to briefly explain our spiritual condition when we first started reading this false apostle's doctrine.


    John: I had been saved for 4 months, and I really wanted to know the Lord. I read my Bible everyday. I prayed everyday. The Lord spoke to my heart. I know the Lord was with me, and the Holy Spirit was in me. But there was so much confusion in my life, from the church we went to, and in mine and Debbie's marriage. All I knew was that Jesus was my Savior. In the church that we belonged to, I would ask questions about God, the Holy Spirit, etc. Our Pastor would give me books to read instead of telling me that all the answers I needed were in the Bible. So I learned to look elsewhere for God. I was learning to rely more on man than on God. So when this deception came along I was primed to be deceived, because I wasn't relying on God alone. I wanted to learn about God, and I wanted God to fix a certain problem in my marriage. I didn't know what it meant to "wait" on the Lord. What these false teachings provided for me was a quick fix. This so-called apostle seemed to "know" something, and I thought these false teachings were my answer. Having said this, I do not blame anyone, I take full responsibility for the path I chose to take.


    Debbie: I had been saved for 5 years. In 1999 I left my church where I had gone after my salvation. While there, the Lord had laid in my heart a solid foundation. I knew what the "truth" was; I knew the voice of my Shepherd. I left because of a personal disagreement between myself and the leadership of the church. I went to another church, and 1 year later John came to the Lord in May of 2000. John and I started to go street witnessing in a nearby town, and we were active in our church. Even though we were doing these "good" things for the Lord I did not feel like I was growing much. The Lord was also causing things to surface that were hidden in my heart, things that He wanted to heal. I was in bondage because of past sin, and I knew that it needed to be addressed. I really wanted to be free! But rather than fall on my face before the Lord, repent, and seek Him only, I started looking for relief from other people. I knew my answer was in the Lord and His Word, but I became impatient.
    I was open to this deception for many reasons. The biggest one I think is, I just wanted more of God and the devil was able to trick me for a time.


    September/October


    Everything started for us around September of 2000. At this time my best friend and sister in the Lord told me that she had found a website on the internet by a man who claimed to be an apostle. She gave me a few of his teachings, and told me how to get to his website (Second 8th Week). I (Debbie) went to his website, and I began to read. In the beginning I had a hard time understanding most of what this so-called apostle and his wife were teaching. I also had a feeling of something not being right, but they seemed so spiritual that I thought they knew something about God that I didn't. At about this time I had given some teachings to John to read. We discussed them together with our friends. At this time we all expressed doubt that this man was an apostle, and agreed that his teachings were difficult to understand. We decided that we would check it out anyway, and see what would happen. We (J&D) thought, in the beginning, that this was only going to be a Bible study.

    Around the end of October we (J&D) decided that we would do Eric's "elements of the gospel". We and our friends decided that we would start meeting after church, on Sunday, to study these teachings together. We all enjoyed being together. Our families were good friends. We enjoyed fellowshipping together over lunch, and as we did these teachings. The funny part is that we would just get finished with church, and still be so hungry for the Lord, that we would spend all afternoon together doing these teachings.

    At first everything seemed ok, but as we continued this, every Sunday, some concerns started to arise. We still had a hard time with this man saying he was an apostle. But the way these people (E&M) wrote made them seem so spiritual, so we continued.

    This was the Holy Spirit warning us that something was wrong. We overrode these feelings, because of what we thought we were learning.

    This is when the Lord gave Debbie a dream (dreams & visions 1). When I told my friend about this dream, she didn't have much to say about it. But we both did think it was an interesting dream. I tried to forget about it but I could not.

    I (D) wanted to get to know Eric and Maria better. So I asked them some questions about themselves. They wouldn't answer my questions. What they said was, "they didn't want us to mold ourselves after them." I thought was a very strange answer. So I kept asking them to answer my questions. I wanted to know how big their church was, how many people were in their church, what they did for a living, etc. They finally answered; they told us they do not go to a church, that they have assemblies at their home. They told us there were 3 other people besides themselves, and they had been out of the church for 20 years. We thought this was very odd, that a so-called apostle hadn't been to a church for 20 years, and only had 3 people listening to him. When we expressed our concern about him not being in the church and only having 3 followers, his answer was; God had been preparing him just like God prepared Paul. We accepted this answer.

    Another warning ignored!!!

    November/December

    It was about this time that my friend was having home groups (through our church) at her home. She was trying to bring some of Eric's teachings into the Bible study. Some of the people expressed an interest in who this man was, and what he was teaching. At this time Eric and Maria said that they would like to come to our area to meet us, and do some teaching in person. The people in the home group found out that he was thinking about coming up here, and they said they would want to come and listen to what he had to say. When Eric and Maria found this out they said no one else could come, except those people who had been reading his teachings. He said that he didn't want to answer any questions. This caused the people in the home group to be greatly concerned about what we were getting involved with. They even told my friend something was wrong with Eric if he was not willing to answer questions about what he was teaching.

    This was just another warning we all received, but ignored!!!

    I (D) now began to email them (E&M) on a regular basis, and whenever I could, I would be at their website reading. At this time 2 things were happening inside of me. Part of me liked what I was learning. I thought that I was learning things about God that I had never known before. The other part of me (the Holy Spirit warning me), felt uneasy, nervous, confused, and the two could not mix. While I thought that I was advancing in the Lord, in my knowledge of Him, I started to notice things in my heart and life that were not lining up with the foundation that Jesus had laid in my heart from the beginning of my salvation. I noticed that I was reading this so-called apostle's doctrine more than my Bible. I knew this was not right!!! I was homeschooling at the time, and it was a struggle for me to focus on my children during school time. I was either reading their website, or emailing with them. My priorities were getting mixed up!!! I started to become critical about other believers. For instance, if they didn't speak in tongues, they didn't have the Holy Spirit and were not saved. I started to lose my love for the members of the Body of Christ. I started thinking our church was not under the right authority, because there was no apostle. The men of God that I enjoyed listening to on the radio (Chuck Swindol, David Jeremiah, Charles Stanley, etc.) were wrong too. When I would listen to the music on Christian radio, or one of my tapes, I felt like I was doing something wrong. You see, I was told by this false apostle that praise & worship music was not accepted by God. This brought confusion to me, because when a song would come on the radio, and I wanted to worship God, I would feel condemned because of what I was "learning" (brainwashed). At this time I expressed my feelings to my husband, and to my friend.

    I (John) felt nothing. I was so new in the Lord, and so ignorant to the ways of the Lord, that when the Holy Spirit had warned me, I had no idea what He was saying to me. I was being "fed", and still thought I was learning about God.

    When I (D) told my friend that I was feeling uneasy, nervous, and confused, she told me that she had been feeling the same way, and also physically ill. She told me that she had emailed Eric & Maria, and told them how she was feeling. They (E&M) told her that there was a group of people in South Africa that were feeling the same way. They said it was only the church's false doctrine being purged out of them, and us.

    We know now that this was the Holy Spirit warning us, and them. We again ignored these warnings!!!

    Something strange happened to me (D) at this time. I was standing behind John while he was emailing with Eric one evening. As I was reading with John, a shining, flickering object came off the computer screen. At first I thought something was wrong with my eyes. When I turned around I saw three more of these objects in different places in the room. I then told John and the kids, "I think I am seeing angels." But my family did not see them. They all left but one. This one was on my left side, and everywhere I went, it followed me. It was a shiny, vertical form. At first I thought this was kind of neat, but then I started to feel very uncomfortable, and scared, because it would not leave me alone! After about 1/2 hour of this, I started to panic a little. So I prayed, "Lord if this from You, please make me not scared, but if it is not from You, take it away." Immediately it was gone! John and I didn't know what to think. I told my friend about this, and she said that she had seen similar things also. When I told Eric & Maria about this, Eric told me he sees these all the time, and that they are present at his assemblies. He said they were ministering spirits. I believed him!

    Another warning from the Lord that we ignored!!!

    We now began to give these teachings to our Pastor and people at church. We thought that the problems in our church could be solved by this so-called apostle's doctrine. Our Pastor pretty much ignored what was given to him by my friend and by myself (D). He only took notice after John had given him a teaching. This is when things started to heat up.

    Our Pastor finally read through what was given to him. He expressed his concerns, and disapproval of these teachings. We asked him what was wrong. He pointed out a few specific things that were in error. The "not being saved unless you spoke in tongues, " and "having to be under a living apostle." He also said, "there is something else wrong with these teachings but I don't know what." But at this time we (J&D) were already in deception and becoming brainwashed by this false doctrine. So we didn't listen to our Pastor, and his discernment.

    Another warning from the Lord that we ignored!!!

    Another important event that happened is that Eric and Maria sent us (regular mail) some scripture cards. We were supposed to read these everyday along with his teachings. These were verses about apostles, and spiritual government, etc. On one of the cards was a verse from Genesis 5:24 about Enoch. We thought this was strange because it seemed to not belong with the other scriptures. When I asked about this I was told about Enoch, that he was such a righteous man, but not much else was said. So we just blew it off and didn't think it was very important. But it was. We just wouldn't find out why until later.

    January/February/March

    We had a New Years Eve party at our house. We invited friends from church, our Pastor, and their families. We played games and had a lot of fun. The next day we called and invited our Pastor over to our home to meet with us and our friends. We were going to try and convince him that this so-called apostle's doctrine was of the Lord. We honestly believed that we would be able to persuade our Pastor that this was the route that the church should go.
    Our Pastor was set up!
    Before he came over we emailed Eric & Maria and told them about the meeting. We asked them, "What do we say to convince him?" They (E&M) told us what scriptures to take him to, what key words and phrases to use, i.e.; "grace and truth" and "pattern." They told us to use these words when we talked with him. Before our Pastor came over for the meeting, he had emailed Eric and asked him a bunch of questions. Eric replied back to him. What our Pastor didn't know is that Eric forwarded our Pastor's letter to us with Eric's answers. We knew in advance the questions and statements our Pastor would ask us, and Eric told us what to say.
    This was deceitful, dishonest and most definitely NOT of the Lord!
    The Bible says in 1John 2:21 "no lie is of the truth".

    This was another warning we ignored!!!

    During the meeting our Pastor told us that if we were going to continue to pass out these teachings to people at church, that he would denounce these teachings, and us, from the pulpit. He also told us that he would be talking to the people we had given these false teachings to. He would tell them to get rid of them, and that they were not from the Lord. This was the end of our meeting. Even though we had a decision to make, to follow Eric, or to stay in the church, our minds were already made up. When we were not at church the following Sunday, people from church started to call because they were concerned about what was happening. I (D) found out that our Pastor had talked to my friend, and she was very upset, because he told her she was going to lose her soul if she continued with this false apostle. So I decided to call our Pastor myself. When I called him, he told me the same thing, "that I would lose my soul if I didn't stop following these teachings." This made me very upset. Because of the statement my Pastor had previously made, that "there is something wrong and I don't know what it is, " I said to him, " You cannot say that I will lose my soul if you can't tell me why." John then talked to our Pastor and told him that, "if we find out that this is wrong, we would come to him and tell him that we were wrong."
    The statement our Pastor had said to me, about losing my soul, haunted me the entire time I was under this false apostle.

    The next thing that happened was that two men from our church wanted to meet with all of us at our friend's house. They were going to try and address what was wrong with these teachings. So we met with them. One of the men quoted some scriptures that got us (J&D) to stop and think. When we got home we decided to put everything from Eric & Maria away for 2 weeks, and seek the Lord. That very night the Lord gave John a dream (dreams & visions 2). Because we interpreted this dream wrong, and had the wrong interpretation confirmed by the false apostle, we didn't put everything away for 2 weeks like we said we would. We continued on.

    Another warning from the Lord that we ignored!!!

    Now we entered a new level of deception. We had separated ourselves from the "Body, " and we were accountable to no one but the false apostle. Instead of our time together with our friends being Bible study (even though we never studied out of the Bible) we were now having "assemblies." Since our friend had been doing these false teachings the longest, Eric made her the Elder of our group. Eric told us that they have assemblies everyday. He said we should try to have them at least 3 or 4 times a week. As we began our so-called assemblies together, we started to try and indoctrinate our children with these false teachings. Our children really didn't want to have anything to do with this. They did not understand anything this false apostle taught. We tried to explain to them about God wanting us to come to Him through the "contact points, " "tools of covenant, " "speaking in tongues, " etc. This brought confusion to our children.
    Jesus is not confusing to children.
    In Matthew 19:14, Jesus said, "let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for such is the Kingdom of heaven".

    Another warning from the Lord!!!

    Even though we (J&D) were pretty much fully indoctrinated by now, I (D) could not get rid of the memory of my dream (1), and what my Pastor had told me about losing my soul. I was finding it very hard to understand that we were the only ones that knew "the whole truth of God, " and that the entire Body of Christ was wrong. I kept telling myself and my husband that "if there was only 1 more person in this area that was doing this, I thought I would be ok." My feelings of isolation were growing stronger. I couldn't fellowship with my friends from church anymore. I also had no connection in the spirit with Eric or Maria, like I had with my brothers and sisters in the Lord. We rationalized this as, "we had not met them face to face yet." Because we were so deceived and we thought we were gaining such great knowledge about God, we continued to ignore the warnings of the Holy Spirit.

    By this time, in our assemblies, we were not singing to the Lord anymore because we were taught this was not a contact point with God. So I begged my friend to ask Eric and Maria if we could have music in our "assembly" because I missed singing to the Lord. They (E&M) told us it was ok to have a couple songs, because now we had the correct truth laid in our heart by the apostle, and we knew the "right" way to come to God.

    We started noticing more references to the books of Enoch in Eric's false doctrine. When we asked about this, we were told that these were missing books of the Bible. We were told that they were inspired just like the Bible. This bothered us but we figured we would just ignore the Enoch parts.

    Another warning ignored!!!

    By this time we were having our assemblies on a regular basis. John and our friends all seemed to be doing great with this false doctrine, but I (D) continued to have problems. I couldn't quite put myself totally under Eric, and I still didn't feel right about how we left our church. I was having a real hard time ignoring the warnings the Holy Spirit was giving us! I was so deceived that I didn't understand what God was trying to tell me. By this time I was almost totally convinced that Eric was an apostle, and I believed that if I walked away from Eric, I would be walking away from God. We know now that this was part of what they were teaching, that without Eric's false doctrine we couldn't be with God. I was confused! I loved Jesus with all my heart and only wanted to go wherever He wanted me to go. 1 Cor. 14:33 reads, "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace."

    At this time, 2 of this false apostle, s followers, who also lived in Port Huron, broke into Eric and Maria's house and stole their computer. When we were told this, we couldn't believe it! These men had studied under this false apostle for 4 years. Eric had laid hands on them and confirmed them in their callings, "prophet, " and "teacher." We thought, "How strange, this doesn't make sense." How could they steal from "the apostle?" What had they been taught, to be comfortable enough to steal? We thought they were so spiritual, and then to do something so obviously wrong. We asked Eric and Maria what had happened? They told us that these 2 men wanted to come up here to our town to teach us. Eric told them they could not come up here. They got mad and stole the computer, so that Eric and Maria could not communicate with us. This action did not stop them, or us.

    Another warning from the Lord!!!

    Around the beginning of February 2001, my friend received a teaching from Maria called "The Baptism of Light." My friend told me this teaching was about heaven. Maria told her not to let anyone read it that was "faint of heart." When she told me about this, I got a real creepy feeling, (Holy Spirit). I told her that I wasn't ready to read it yet; I told her I felt afraid.

    February 10th: Eric called me (John) on the phone and taught me about suffering for the Lord. He talked to me for about 2 hours. He was very "to the point" about everything, no chit chat. I felt no spiritual connection with him.

    February 16th: The Lord gave John a dream (dreams & visions 3).

    February 20th: Our friend was getting ready to go to Florida, and we were going to have our last assembly before she left. We really didn't have anything planned so she asked us if we all wanted to do "The Baptism of Light." We agreed. This teaching was about heaven, and how when we die we will go back INTO God, and become gods. Eric said this was the 3rd covenant, or baptism of light. Eric teaches that we will have creative powers to create new worlds etc. He also says that the mansions Jesus spoke of in John 14:2 are not places Jesus is preparing for us, but that they are rooms INSIDE of God Himself, and this is where we will enter INTO. This is what Eric teaches the 3rd covenant is: WE BECOME GOD!

    This was the turning point for me (D). After we left our friend's home that night I could not shake the creepy feeling I had again. Just like when my friend told me about this teaching a few weeks previously. Eric's teaching made heaven seem dark to me. I had never been afraid of heaven before. I always knew heaven was the place where I would see Jesus face to face, and get to be with Him forever. I looked forward to seeing my saved family and friends. I knew there would be no more tears and a place of pure joy. Now I was afraid to go there????? I didn't want to create anything; that was Gods job, not mine. I knew this was not right! This man Eric claims that because he is an apostle of God, God gives him special knowledge. He said God showed him what the 3rd covenant was and how we would operate in it.

    What happened next I describe as "the Holy Spirit rising up within me." God was opening my eyes to this evil doctrine.

    The next day before my friend left for Florida, I told her that something was going to happen while she was gone. I didn't know why I said that. I just had a feeling (the Holy Spirit). The same day that our friend left, Eric called John and did another study with him. Maria also contacted me (D) and asked me if I would like to talk to a new person who was starting to study "the apostle's doctrine." She thought it would be good for me because then I would have someone to fellowship with while my friend was gone. I thought it was strange that Maria herself would not want to fellowship with me, and that she would want me to help teach someone new when I was the doubter of our group from the beginning! I agreed to email this woman; her name was Valerie.

    As God was opening my eyes, I knew something was wrong so I decided to go back to Eric's website and look at things again. While I was reading, the Lord had things jump off the page at m; things Eric was teaching that I had never noticed before, even though I had already read them. First I noticed how Eric took many scriptures from the book of Isaiah, and said they were about him. I knew these scriptures were Messianic prophecies about Jesus Christ, not Eric! I noticed in his testimony where he talks of a bearded man who appeared to him. Eric says this was Enoch. I began to ask Eric questions about these things. I told him how those scriptures in Isaiah were about Jesus, not him. Eric's reply was that those scriptures were also meant for the apostles. I asked him if he had tested that spirit of Enoch that came to him in his room. According to 1John we are to test the spirits. Any spirit that does not confess Jesus is God in the flesh is not from God. This spirit did not confess Jesus Christ. It told Eric he was the "deliverance one." Eric's answer to this was that if Moses and Elisha could visit Jesus, then Enoch could visit him.

    I started to tell John that something was really wrong with what we were doing. I told him I was emailing Eric with questions about who he was claiming to be. I told John about the scriptures Eric was claiming were about him. I told John that Eric was giving me the run around when he wrote back to me, and was not really answering my questions. At this same time, Valerie (the woman I was supposed to be teaching) emailed me with a question. She asked me if I was feeling strange about Eric's teachings. She also said she felt like something was wrong but she didn't know what! Well this was getting to be a pretty common phrase by now. It seemed everyone that came in contact with this so-called apostle had the same check in their spirit. I knew this was the Lord speaking through Valerie to me, and I was not going to ignore His warnings anymore.

    February 22nd: The Lord now began to open John's eyes. This night John and I (D) were praying before bed. The Lord gave John a vision, (dreams & visions 4a). We talked about this vision, and we knew we were the metal and God was the forge. He was tempering (strengthening) us for the battle to come! That same night the Lord gave John a dream, (dreams & visions 4b). This dream got John's full attention!!!! He (J) emailed this dream to Eric and Maria for interpretation. They said that it was just the "church system" being cleansed from him (J). We were very suspicious of their answer because we knew that this dream was about them. By their lack of answer, it proved to both of us (J&D) that this dream WAS about them.

    After Valerie's email to me about how she was feeling, I noticed that I felt an immediate connection with her. I knew she was my sister in the Lord and I had never seen her. This was something I never felt with Eric or Maria, and had thought was because I hadn't met them face to face yet. Well, I couldn't use that excuse any longer. Valerie told me she was going to pray and seek the Lord about Eric & Maria. She said she recognized the feeling of something not being right, and that the Lord would show her if she sought Him. She said she would contact us when she had an answer.

    Meanwhile I (D) continued to ask Eric questions. I saw on his website in his teaching called "apostles separation and cleansing" that he said if there were other apostles in the world they would have to come to him (Eric) for cleansing. He compared himself to Moses; that just as God used one man to cleanse the people then, God is going to do the same now. Eric was claiming to be that man, because he said the "church" is in darkness and needs cleansing from a living apostle.
    I knew this was wrong!!!
    I also saw something else Eric said about this so-called Enoch that visited him. Eric claims that Enoch is an angel now in heaven, and his name is Meditron. He has 70 eyes and 70 wings.
    This was not only wrong, but just plain strange!
    Eric still didn't answer any of my questions with straight forward answers; they were always very wordy.

    February 25th: The Lord gave John a dream (dreams & visions 5).

    The emails continued between Debbie and Eric. Now Eric told me I was asking all my questions out of fear and not for the purpose of learning. I told him, "You bet I am asking out of fear, as what I am discovering about you is frightening me." I was now begging Eric to please answer my questions with simple answers, but he wouldn't. You see, I didn't want to believe the worst about him; and he was making me feel like I was confused, and misunderstanding him. He told me that satan was getting into my head and giving me these fears, and that I needed to put scriptures around my house to keep satan out. I did not do this. Even though I was confused (spiritually), I was not confused about what God was showing me about Eric's false doctrine. In my spiritual confusion, I decided I could not follow Eric & Maria anymore. I told John that I was done, that they were not from Jesus, and I had to stop! John was not yet convinced.

    March 1st: Valerie sent us an urgent email. She said that our souls were in great peril, and she wanted to talk to us on the phone. When she called she said we were dealing with "luciferic evil, " and said that Eric's teachings were "convoluted, " meaning truth covering many lies. She found out that Meditron was part of ancient Jewish mysticism (the 3rd book of Enoch). This was where Eric got his information about Enoch being an angel.

    At this time I (J) was convinced that Eric was wrong and had deceived us. All I could think about was going over to our friend's house to warn him about what we were being taught. Right after Valerie's phone call Debbie and I went to our friend's house to talk to him (his wife was still in Florida). We told him what we were discovering about Eric, about who and what he was claiming to be, and about what he was teaching. Our friend did not know what to think. After we got home we went online to try and find out about Meditron. What we found was frightening and very evil, and some of what we found was in line with Eric's "Baptism of Light" teaching.

    March 2nd: We emailed Eric with some very specific questions. We asked him to answer us very simply, with yes or no answers. He gave very confusing answers that went around our questions. He accused us again of asking these questions out of fear. I (D) then asked him, "if I decide not to follow you anymore, would I be walking away from God?" He told me that I would be walking away from the "grace and truth" of God. He also said, "What about everything you have learned? How can you deny that God was with you while you were learning from the truth I have shown you?"
    God was with us the whole time, protecting us and guiding us out!!!
    They then told us we were not welcome to contact them anymore, and they blocked our emails.

    We were out!

    I (D) went upstairs to pray. Even though I knew Eric was wrong, I was still confused. I was thinking that Eric had made a good point when he told me that God was with me while I was learning his "doctrine." I was confused; was he or was he not an apostle? I was thinking because of all the things we had been "learning" that God was showing us that Eric was an apostle. As I was praying to the Lord about this, He gave me this word:
    "I do not give you more of Me to confirm a man, I give you more of Me to confirm Myself."
    I wrote this down in my Bible; I knew this was truth! John called our friend and read to him the emails between Eric and us. At first he didn't see anything wrong with them. We were very concerned about him!

    March 4th: We met on Sunday with our friend. He said to us that he felt the Lord told him to read the entire book of 1 John. He also said the Lord told him "to learn more." He told us that he knew it meant to learn more about Eric & Maria, not to learn more about the false apostle's doctrine. As we continued discussing this false doctrine, his eyes were being opened and he seemed convinced that these teachings were wrong. He then said, "My family will have nothing to do with this anymore." He said that when he got home he was going to disable their computer and leave a note on it, so that when his wife got home, she would not be able to contact Eric & Maria.

    March 6th: Our friend came home from Florida. We met her at her house shortly after she arrived. We told her all that we had found out about Eric & Maria, and the false doctrine he was teaching. We showed her the scriptures that Eric claimed were about him. We told her what Eric and Maria believed about Enoch being Meditron, and all the emails back and forth, and how they blocked us from contacting them. We discussed these things with her for most of the afternoon. She was bothered by all that we told her, and she said that it didn't sound very good. She told us that her husband left her a note on the computer telling her that she was not allowed to have any contact with Eric & Maria. We went home rejoicing that our friends were going to get out of this deception also.

    March 7th: I (D) had talked to my friend on the phone and her whole attitude had completely changed. She agreed that what we had explained to her about this false doctrine was wrong. She told me that they were going to continue to study under Eric anyway, because of the peace that they had, and because they didn't want to stop learning. They wanted to finish doing the "elements of the gospel." She also said that it didn't matter if some of what he taught was wrong, because the "elements" were so truthful. I was very upset by this, because I thought she was going to come out of this deception with us. She was my best friend. I looked up to her as my sister in the Lord, and I didn't understand why she was going to continue with this false doctrine. I was devastated! I didn't know what was right or wrong. Now I was even more confused.

    At this time, the Lord let me (D) see how far away I was from Him. It was as if there was a big gulf between me and Jesus. I felt like I was drifting away from Him and I didn't know how to get back. In my almost 7 years of knowing Jesus, I had never experienced this type of spiritual feeling. This feeling frightened me beyond words. I was having a hard time hearing the voice of my shepherd, a strange voice was now there, one I did not know! I had been crying, and crying out to the Lord. I was asking Jesus, "What is happening to me? What is the truth? How did I get to this place I am in?" I asked Him to show me exactly what I had done wrong. My Lord then gave me a scripture in Jeremiah 2:20-22 (dreams & visions 6). I knew this was for me. I knew this was my answer, and it cut right through my heart. I didn't know what to do with it. I felt like my sin before God was so great. I thought, how could I be restored! I kept this to myself for almost a week, because I didn't know if Eric was the "noble vine, and seed of highest quality" or if it was Jesus. That night as we were praying the Lord gave John a vision (dreams & visions 7).

    March 8th: I (D) was still very confused, and doubting everything. I called my friend again to try and convince her to stop. She told me that I was overreacting, and that Eric's doctrine was not that bad. I got off the phone very upset. We both went to Eric & Maria's website and discovered that they had removed specific parts off of "Apostles Separation & Cleansing." They had taken the part out about Enoch being Meditron, with 70 eyes, and 70 wings. They also changed other parts of their website. We knew that Eric changed these things because we had confronted him about them.
    There are only 2 reasons for them to remove or change parts of their website.
    1. They realized they were in doctrinal error,
    or
    2. They were hiding the parts that people were questioning.
    We know that they were hiding things because they never believed that they were in error.

    March 10th: I finally told John about the scripture the Lord gave me in Jeremiah 2:20-22, and how I felt that I couldn't come back to the Lord. John reminded me of the blood of Jesus. John asked me if I had read a little further in Jeremiah. He then read to me from Jeremiah 3:12-13; this was a great comfort to me. I then remembered that Jesus Christ is the noble vine, and not Eric. So I acknowledged my sin to the Lord, of leaving Him to follow another voice. The Lord then reminded me of the very basis of my salvation.
    I knew Jesus died on the cross for me - this is truth
    I knew His blood covered all my sins - this is truth
    I knew that because I believed these truths, that the Holy Spirit was inside me - this is truth
    I knew He promised He would never leave or forsake me - this is truth

    THE CONFUSION LEFT!

    March 12th: The Lord gave John another dream (dreams & visions 8).

    March 13th: We went to our friends' house to try and convince them again about everything that was wrong with Eric's teachings. We were not successful! They were going to continue! We went home very sad, and not sure what we were going to do next.

    March 14th: We were talking about everything that had happened in the past 2 weeks. All the questions we had asked Eric, and all the answers he gave us. We didn't understand why he got so angry and why it was so wrong to ask questions out of fear. We wondered what we had done that was so bad, that he would block us from communicating with them. We were still confused. Was he or was he not an apostle? Then the Lord spoke words into John's heart; Jesus loves us, and would never tell us to leave or kick us out because we were asking questions or were afraid. God is love, understanding, and longsuffering towards us. This word from God greatly comforted us and took away the confusion about who Eric claims to be. He is not a true apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    The Lord had now delivered us from the hold that this deception had over us, and He put us on the path that has led us to where we are now.



    ALL PRAISE, GLORY, AND HONOR TO HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE.

    Revelation 22:13

    "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."

    THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!

  • Check this link out:

    http://www.conqueringlove.com/hidden.html

    This link is to expose the hidden teachings of the false apostle from the Second 8th Week. The first one covered, after this brief introduction, will be this false apostles teaching called "the baptism of light."

    Mark 4:22
    These are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    “For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed,
    Nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.


    First we will explain how we obtained these teachings.
    Everything we testify to will be the absolute truth. For if we lie, or exaggerate we will be guilty of breaking Gods 9th Commandment “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16), and we will not do that. We have nothing to hide.


    On March 4th, 2003 this false apostle took all of his websites off the internet.
    How to Have Perfect Faith
    Second 8th Week University
    Research on Cults
    We believe they did this after we received all of this false apostles teachings (approximately 580 of them), along with a password to his private student board.
    We did not ask for any of these things, the Lord Jesus Christ provided.
    An Elder from this false apostle's group in Canada gave everything to us, after the Lord had opened his eyes to this deception. He knew people needed to see these teachings, that if they did they would not be deceived any longer. He himself received over 580 teachings when Maria (the false apostles wife) gave them to him. Neither this elder or us obtained any of these through any deceit or trickery, for that would be breaking Gods 8th Commandment “You shall not steal” (Exodus 20:15), and we would not do that.

    After looking at many, many of these hidden teachings, we want to acknowledge that Eric is in fact “The Apostle of the Second 8th Week.” But he IS NOT an Apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Eric von Anderseck gave himself this title from an idea he got from the book of Enoch. Eric took from Enoch 91:12 and added his own words, to make up the name Second 8th Week. Look for yourselves in the book of Enoch.

    We have teachings that this false apostle does not want people to know about. If people read these they would never have anything to do with this apostle from the Second 8th Week. This false apostle does not give these teachings out until someone is brainwashed with his false doctrine.

    These teachings contain New Age angel worship, Occult, Jewish mysticism, and satanic things. Mysticism = Any doctrine that asserts the possibility of attaining knowledge of spiritual truths through intuition acquired by fixed meditation.
    Occult = hidden, concealed, secret, beyond human understanding, mysterious.
    Satanic = Characteristic of, or like Satan; devilish; wicked; infernal; diabolical.


    One thing is made very clear, these teachings are not from the God of the Bible.

    You Will Be Like God
    “The Baptism of Light”
    “Eternal Inheritance”


    The leader of the Second 8th Week, Eric von Anderseck, claims that he is an apostle of Jesus Christ.
    Therefore, we as believers are required by Scripture to test this man’s teachings.
    Ezekiel 3:16-21
    Ezekiel 33:1-6
    2Cor 13:5-6
    Col 1:28
    1Thes 5:21-22
    James 5:18-19
    2Tim 3:16
    1John 4:1

    We have proven on this website, by the Word of God, that this mans claim to apostleship and his teachings are false.

    The following quotes are this mans own words of what he believes, and teaches. The quotes are taken from his teachings “The Baptism of Light” and “Eternal Inheritance”

    You will see that this false apostle strips the divinity away from Jesus Christ, making Him just a man (1).
    Also, he teaches that we will be EQUAL to God, and create in other dimensions (s 5, 9, 10, 16).
    Furthermore, this false apostle teaches that Adam is at the right hand of God (15). When every true believer knows that Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God.
    You will also see that this false apostle takes anyone who follows him, into other "books". These "books" contradict the very nature of God, as revealed in the Bible (66 books, made up of both old and new testaments). These extra "books" are filled with dangerous and heretictal teachings, which is why they were never allowed to be put in our present day Bible. There are many more non-biblical and strange beliefs, as you will see.


    Please read all of the following quotes, and test them yourself with the Word of God.

    1. “He (Jesus) emptied Himself of the Divine and became subject to the conditions of the FLESH.”

    2. “The COMFORTER will now work with us, not for regeneration, but to propagate His works in other dimensions.”

    3. “What is the Baptism of Light?”
    “This is where we are ONE with the Father by entering the Shekinah (soul) of God to absorb His knowledge and experience, to propagate His glory in other dimensions.”

    4. “As Christ entered us to set His signature in our soul and fill each chamber of the soul with His virtues, we will in return fill the kingdom of God with our glory.”

    5. “We will be EQUAL to God and REIGN in Him for eternity.

    6. “And He (God) was TRANSFORMED and became LIKE an angel (this is God in the form of the Holy Spirit) A/Is.9:30

    7. “God the Father, PROJECTED Himself forth as Christ into the body of Jesus.”

    8. “We shall MULTIPLY as Stars of heaven. Not on earth! But IN Him. The Holy City would not be able to contain all the beings.”

    9. “We will absorb all that God is to be BORN into HIS LIKENESS. We will be fitted into His ROBE, and He will set us each one by one on our THRONES.”

    10. “Then we will ENTER into Him and be part of Him as He is now being part of us in our soul.”

    This false apostle quotes from the book of 3rd Enoch. This is a book of Jewish mysticism.

    11. “Enoch the righteous the seventh from Adam is now called by God “Metatron” and he receives seventy titles of names.

    12. “3 Enoch 10:1, He made for me (Enoch) a THRONE like the THRONE of glory.”

    13. “Metatron was to sit in the throne room of God, in the court of Arabot, and pen down all the acts of the Lord. Metatron was Gods personal scribe. These books will be present on the day of judgement.”

    14. Enoch was enlarged and given a body of flame and sinews of coals and eyes of fire and 72 wings and had eyes as large as the earth.”

    Eric now quotes from the books of 1 Adam and Eve, and the testament of Adam.

    15. “Adam, Adam do not fear you wanted to be a god, I will make you a god, not right now, but after a space of many years… and I will set you at the right hand of my divinity, and I will make you a god just like you wanted.”

    The following is a quote from this false apostles teaching called “Eternal Inheritance”

    16. “He meant that we would be ruling as gods in the dimension within God. As SONS of God, God has destined us to share in this title (god Ps. 82:6). Sharing what He is, CREATING, doing what our Father has done.”

    If these are the things that you believe you ARE NOT worshiping the God of the Bible, and your soul is in danger!

    These are not the teachings of the real Apostles of Jesus Christ!
    These are the teachings of the Books of 3Enoch, The Ascension of Isaiah, 1Adam and Eve, Book of Adam, and The Apocalypse of Abraham.

    One of the themes that runs throughout these teachings is the same lie the serpent told Eve in Genesis 3:5 “you will be like God”

    God forbids us to be gods. We were not created to be gods! We were created to worship and serve only Him. The Lord made it very clear that Adam (and all of mankind) could not and would not be god. To keep Adam from becoming a “god” and to provide a way for mans redemption, the Lord kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden. He then put a cherubim with a flaming sword to guard the tree of life. Genesis 3:22-24.

    God is a jealous God! He will not share His glory with man or any other created being. Exodus 20:5, Exodus 34:14

    As we stated at the beginning, this false apostle teaches that we will go and create in other dimensions.
    If we are to create in other dimensions, then we must take this belief to its logical conclusion:
    That the creation would worship its creator (us).

    Why would God, who has told us not to worship other gods or idols, who is a jealous God, why would He make us gods to create and have our creations worship us? The answer is, He would not!
    This teaching is a major contradiction of the character and nature of God.
    This also goes against everything the Bible teaches.
    God does not contradict Himself or His word (the Bible).

    In conclusion:
    We don’t know what else can be said, this is such obvious deception.

  • History With 2nd 8th Week Ministries

    You may be wondering why I am making such a big deal about this group. One of my MySpace friends got deceived by Apostle JoAnne Cremer. He was a new Christian, but he got swept up into her false teachings. He's also a friend of Lucia's and a couple other of my MySpace friends.

  • Now we know why she wouldn't talk about the Trinity or the Holy Spirit....she doesn't believe in either, in reality....just as I suspected, they put the creeds and stated the doctrine of the trinity in order to appear orthodox.

    There are other websites that expose 2nd 8th week...:
    http://mosaicministries.homestead.com/
    http://evangelizeamerica.org/apologetics/false%20teachers/apostle_eric.htm
    http://www.cultwatch.com/saseries.html

  • Here is a transcript of a debate that I had with Apostate JoAnne Cremer in a MySpace group. These are taken from several topics, as you will probably be able to tell as you read it. Please read and judge for yourselves:

    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote:
    Dear Friends,

    I would like to share the truth with you concerning the perspective of God as concerning gender, and females fulfilling a role in the spiritual government of God. When the Church became disconnected from the Headship of Christ, many false teachings prevailed which cast a shadow of shame upon the gospel, upon the gender of women and upon the ministry of the 5 callings. Second 8th Week Apostles are restoring to the Church the truth of the gospel and returning to the Church the many gifts that were lost or titrated with the traditions of carnality. The statues and judgments that Apostle Paul set in place to deal with a cultural problem have been errantly interpreted as a new covenant commandment. The Church for years has been lacking true, teaching apostles to set the foundation of truth in each believer's heart, and as result, each approached the scriptures with their own private interpretations.

    Please take note in this lesson of the difference between the statues, precepts, commandments, judgments, ordinances, etc. so that the Church may once and for all, understand that God does not discriminate against women obeying His commandment to steward the grace of God, and to respond to His call and selection to government. While we are on the subject of callings, I want to reiterate here that God has a calling FOR EVERY BELIEVER to one of the 5 offices of spiritual government.

    If you are in a place where you have been told that you cannot be a part of spiritual government, we invite you to the Apostles' University. We'll train you and equip you and confirm you.

    If you already know your calling, but lack accredited education on how to fulfill the calling, the Apostles of Second 8th Week stand ready to equip you with the blueprint for faith and give you the mentorship and ministry training & skills you need. We do not discriminate against gender, race, denomination, etc. We are here to FREELY give what we have FREELY received. Our education services are always given at no cost and will empower you to serve God in Christ's simplicity, live the life of Christ in His fullness, and train others to do the same.

    To enroll, simply visit www.second8thweek.com

    Yours in Christ,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer

    The lesson below is copyrighted and trademark protected under:
    Second 8th Week®, S8W®, IDCCST® and Intelligent Design for Christ-Centered Spiritual Transformation®. May the Lord grant grace for understanding to all.

    S8W® Apostles' University Lesson called
    "Concerning Women in the Church"

    The apostle Paul admonished Timothy to, "Study to show yourself approved, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, " II Tim.2:15.

    What does it mean to 'rightly divide' the word of truth? The scriptures were written to provide a record of God's communication with man. The scriptures are divided into areas that address:

    1. The present covenant that man is under.
    2. The previous covenant man was under.
    3. The covenant that is to come.
    4. The commandments of each covenant.
    5. The statutes of each covenant.
    6. The precepts of each covenant.
    7. The judgments of each covenant.
    8. The testimonies of each covenant.
    9. The ordinances of each covenant.
    10. The law of each covenant.
    11. The types and shadows and how they are fulfilled.
    12. The doctrine of our faith.
    God's law reveals all the doctrines which a believer must use to fully identify with the PRESENT COVENANT. The law contains the commandments, statutes, precepts, judgments, testimonies and ordinances.

    Commandments: Identifies the operation of God that we must be active with for our faith; the ordered activity of our faith.

    Statutes: Are the laws which cover a task or policy restricted by time.

    Precepts: The laws which govern a Christian's moral activity.

    Judgments: That which the Spirit initiates for the saints to do at the time, setting a policy for our activity based on present circumstance.

    Testimonies: Are the acts of God; that which we witness or reflect on to testify of God's involvement; can be oral or written.

    Ordinances: A rite or ceremony which is accepted for that place. A law which is restricted only to that area by the apostle.

    Doctrines: What we identify with in our faith; collectively, all doctrine within a system is called truth for that system.

    What are the GENDER commandments of the New Covenant? What is the doctrine concerning gender? When the apostle Paul wrote in Gal.3:28 that, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither MALE nor FEMALE; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus" was this a commandment, a statute, a precept, a judgment, testimony, or ordinance?

    In order to rightly divide the word of God we have to know what to look for. Many people say that this scripture simply means that male and female both receive equal inheritance. Yes, this is true, but this scripture says, "...you are all one IN CHRIST." What is IN Christ, merely an inheritance, or does He also mediate the present covenant, and represent His work through the gifts, callings, and graces of God?

    In rightly dividing this scripture we must look at the present covenant that Christ is mediating and how He represents the work of this covenant.

    The reference in this scripture to being 'IN CHRIST' tells us that God erased the gender lines at the point of access which is Christ. Therefore, all that is in Him is gender free; what is in Christ is not limited by gender any more than it is limited by race.

    Thus the commandment is universal, and deals with all believers for all time. The operation of the Spirit will continue to function by this law, and so should the government of God within the Church.

    Whether male or female, all believers can function on an equal basis with what God has made available in Christ. Whether male or female, all can and should prophesy, share dreams or visions, share in the callings, pray, share words of knowledge, etc.

    So why did the apostle write, "Let your women keep silence in the Churches; for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law, " I Cor.14:34, 35.

    Now we must again rightly divide the word of God; for you see, there is never a contradiction within the mystery. We must simply answer the question, "Was this a commandment, a statute, a precept, a judgment, testimony, or ordinance?"

    When the apostle John wrote his second epistle he wrote, "The elder unto the elect lady and her children, " this was not an isolated letter that was written to an acquaintance, but was addressed to an elder in the assembly which was responsible for the care of the saints. This elder was a woman.

    If the scripture in I Cor14:34, 35 were a commandment then it would have been difficult for her to minister, she would not have been allowed to speak in the assembly. So we see that what Paul wrote about "women keeping silent in the Churches" was not a universal commandment, the doctrine of our faith.

    If we look at the function which Jesus mediates within the assembly, we again see the things that are 'in Christ', we see the operation of God which is in connection with the covenant (those things which are needed for your sanctification), and we see this commandment, "you may all prophecy one by one, " I Cor.14:31; this is the doctrine of our faith because it is in connection with what the Spirit uses to sanctify us.

    A woman could not have obeyed this commandment if she is not to speak in the Church. Therefore she would not have had access to the point of transaction that Jesus mediates for her edification. She could not fulfill the commandment that Paul gave in I Cor.14:12, "Even so you, forasmuch as you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that you may excel to the edifying of the Church, " if she had to keep silent.

    Therefore, when rightly dividing this word, we see that the admonition for women to keep silence in the Church was not a commandment, but A JUDGMENT -- That which the Spirit initiates for the saints to do at the time, setting a policy for our activity based on present circumstance.

    Being two thousand years removed from the problem, which required an apostle to set policy, we have only Church history and cultural traditions to glean from in order to determine what the problem might have been. Since this situation is removed from the normal pattern of the assembly we cannot use this pattern as New Testament doctrine.

    Some cultural references to that period of time suggests that the women in the assemblies were separated from the men, therefore, if the wife had a question to ask their husband, they would call out to them, which naturally, would cause a disruption.

    Therefore we hear Paul's admonition, "If she will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame (disruption) for the women to speak (out in this manner) in the Church." We also see here why Paul said, "They are commanded to be under obedience as also says the law." To whom should a woman be in obedience? To her own husband. And this is what the law of God confirms from the beginning of time.

    When Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses, and became the law of grace and truth, He did not erase family law. The law of the husband over the wife is still in force.

    This is what we also read in I Tim.2:11-14, "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. For I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

    "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. For Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

    To rightly divide the word we have to again ask if this scripture, "Let the woman learn in silence, " and, "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man" was a commandment, a statute, a precept, a judgment, testimony, or ordinance?

    We know that there is never a contradiction within the mystery. The commandment that is part of the mystery does not address the role of a woman in the assembly separate than the role of a man. The commandments of the mystery are the doctrines of our faith that cannot be abandoned or changed because they deal with the work of Christ within.

    That which edifies the soul of a woman also edifies the soul of a man. The grace of God is unique in that it brings illumination to the soul of both genders in the same way. Truth is unique in that it gives direction to the soul of both genders in the same way.

    In fact, regeneration and the renewing of the mind take place in the soul of a woman just as it does in the soul of a man. The signature of course is different, but the tools that sanctify and the activity of faith that justifies us always cause regeneration, whether you are a man or a woman. That's why these commandments of the covenant are not gender specific. So what we see again is the judgment that dealt with a particular problem within that culture at that time.

    Timothy was at Corinth, so it is possible that Paul was instructing him concerning the same problem that He had addressed in I Corinthians. When we read, "For I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man..." we have to ask the question again, "When does a man have authority over the woman?" And again we say that a man has authority over the woman in marriage. The law of the husband has rule over the wife, this is family law. This is why the apostle Paul is speaking here of Adam and Eve. They were united as husband and wife.

    God's union for a man and a woman must follow the structure of law that He ordained from the beginning. Rom.7:2, "For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law of her husband so long as he lives..." This is what we also read in I Cor.7:39. And in I Pet.3:1-7 we read, "Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord."

    We see family law again in Eph.5:22-24, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." As the wife follows the policy that God set for the activity of faith, so should she also follow the policy that the husband sets for the family.

    "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the Church ... Therefore as the Church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing." We see here the necessity of government in order to give direction. Just as Christ gives direction to the Church with the goals that He has in mind, so the husband gives direction to the family with the goals that he has in mind, and this is what the wife promotes in his interest.

    Family law is different than assembly law. When in the assembly, the wife is under the law of Christ. Yet, if her husband is present she is also under the law of her husband as well. Does the law of the husband apply to spiritual matters or to private matters? To private matter only, and not to spiritual matters. The law of Christ applies to the function of the assembly and her activity with the gifts, callings, and graces of God. The law of her husband applies to personal matters.

    THE COVERING

    Now we must address the doctrine of 'the covering'. The prevailing, old school of thought has been that a woman, either married or single, needs a covering in order to function in the assembly. This covering is supposed to be the man, any man. In other words, it has been taught that women can participate in the assembly only as long they are in submission to the men that are there. These nonsensical ideas have come from reading I Cor.11:2-16.

    We use the word 'doctrine' of the covering because that is what this has become; the means by which women express their faith. This teaching has erroneously been seen as what a woman must do to identify with Christ.

    But Paul uses the word 'ordinances' in his instruction in these verses. Just like his judgments (I Cor.6:40), these are given when circumstances arise that need the apostle to set policy. We see that Paul is again addressing family government and setting policy when he says, "The head of the woman is the man." The only time that the head of the woman is the man, is when they are married.

    When he says, "Every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered dishonors her head..." he was speaking of the use of the traditional cloth covering that was the custom for women to wear at that time. Some women had liberated themselves, and when they prophesied without the traditional headdress they drew attention to this cultural issue rather than the grace of God this became a problem. Church government steps in to say that it is best to honor the custom of the time rather than to draw negative attention to oneself.

    When Paul said, "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels, " he was saying that just as angels are subject to the government in which they have to function, so ought women to be subject to the government of the Church concerning the ordinances that are delivered; and so ought the wives to be also subject to the government of the family, the (law) of their husband.

    This verse, "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels" is also in reference to the angel of the assembly which is present to bring the grace of God, not to offend him by being contrary to the ordinances of the apostles.

    Then in verse 16 we read, "If any man seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." Clearly the apostle is not speaking of the mystery of the gospel, which does not change, but the policy by which a man rules his own house, this may change.

    Society is born into the custom of the day, but the Church is not born into that custom. Yet for the sake of what is seen as proper, we should submit when it is deemed necessary.

    When these ordinances and judgments of the apostles are made into doctrine for the Church we see that it puts an unequal yoke or burden upon every woman to be subject to every man in every function of every assembly. Is this wholesome doctrine? Does it contain all of the ingredients necessary for growth? No. This is unwholesome doctrine because it interrupts the flow of the Spirit within the assembly, creates false humility, and servitude that is carnal in nature.

    Remember that the members of Christ are neither male nor female. Both genders function on an equal basis within the context of the mystery and the assembly. Therefore women do not need the permission of a man to speak; neither do they serve the man. A wife serves her own husband.

    Therefore women do not need the 'covering' of a man to prophesy, teach, share a word of knowledge or word of wisdom. Women do not need the 'covering' of a man to function in a calling or in the office of a deacon or bishop.

    The word 'covering' has changed with time to also include the idea of 'accountability'. Men use the 'covering' of relationships to bring themselves into submission to each other. This is said to be their 'covering'. Again, Paul never taught this doctrine, neither did he deliver to the Church this ordinance.

    The apostles used the word FELLOWSHIP when describing the communication of one saint to another, not the word 'relationship'. The word relationship depicts the carnal, earth bound contact points of Adam's system.

    Fellowship is with the mystery, with the contact points of the gifts, callings, and graces of God. Fellowship is sharing the same substance of grace and truth and the fruit of His work. In this there is the bond of charity which is expressed within the assembly from the foundation of truth. Therefore accountability is in truth and not in the person.

    Relationships are founded upon people, and not on Christ. People try to find 'common ground' beliefs because they are not accountable to one truth. False humility is exercised through the submission of one to another, and not to the grace of God. Accountability is to the person, and not to truth.

    In relationships it is thought that if we are held accountable to one another we can become a 'covering' for one another. I check you and you check me. Yet what agreement can there be in the temple of God with idols?

    In true fellowship we are held accountable to truth within the government of God. Therefore we all conform to that ONE faith. Grace flows within the assembly, binding one to another in the expression of charity that all share.

    In rightly dividing the word we could readily see what tools God uses for both men and women to serve Him, to serve each other, and to be brought unto submission.

    What does God use to provide the protection and submission that people look for in a so-called 'covering'? God uses the tools of sanctification to bring both male and female believers into contact with the things He uses to care for their soul. Both male and female believers are in subjection to the angel of the assembly. The angel brings the revelations of God through the gifts and the callings. These are given to bring the blessings of the covenant, both to advance in knowledge and profit from grace. God uses both the mystery and the assembly to bring man into submission to His Spirit, and also brings man into His care.

    In the Body of Christ, where there is no Jew nor Greek, no male, nor female, what does God uses to bring all saints into submission also brings all saints into His care.

    Being sanctified within the assembly; being under the covering of the angel of the assembly. That angel brings the inspiration and revelation of God through the gifts. These are what all saints submit to, which is what in turn brings your soul into God's care. The gifts are designed to bring the blessing of the covenant so that with these we can advance in knowledge and profit by grace.

    Covering: 1. The order of government which protects; being in subjection to God's government both is doctrine and in function provides the protection every saint needs. 2. What God has determined as necessary to guide us, and for our growth.


    Copyright © 2007 Second 8th Week Ministries, Inc.


    Melissa wrote
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer,

    I must again respectfully disagree with you.

    I would like to know your explanation of when the Holy Spirit stopped revealing truth to people in the church outside of your Second 8th week ministries. I would also like you to explain why the gifts of the Holy Spirit never stopped outside of your Apostles ministry. I assure you that the gifts still are very active in certain Christian circles.

    I also would like to know when the church became disconnected with the Headship of Christ. It is true that there are problems in churches today, and there are many people inside churches today who are nominal Christians.....but there have always been true believers in Jesus, and there always will be.

    When did the Holy Spirit stop speaking truth to people's hearts?

    Also, I thought that the Holy Spirit was the One who equips and empowers the believer to do the things of God....not education taught by humans.

    However, I do agree with you on the matter of women being not prohibited from the ministry.

    Here is one line that I specifically disagree with...this goes back to the topic of the Holy Spirit:


    quoting Apostle JoAnne Cremer:
    Being sanctified within the assembly; being under the covering of the angel of the assembly. That angel brings the inspiration and revelation of God through the gifts. These are what all saints submit to, which is what in turn brings your soul into God's care. The gifts are designed to bring the blessing of the covenant so that with these we can advance in knowledge and profit by grace.


    my response to her quote:
    What? The Holy Spirit, who is God is the who brings the inspriation and revelation of God through the gifts. It is the Holy Spirit who equips the believer in spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit is not an angel.

    1CO 12:7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

    This angel that you're referring to is taking the place of the Holy Spirit, according to your teachings. Saints (believers in Jesus) do not submit to angels. They submit to God, and only God. God = the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Saints do not submit to any angels....

    In fact, that reminds me of this passage:
    2CO 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    The spiritual gifts are for edification and for God's glory.


    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote
    Rev. 2:1 "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write:..."
    Rev 2:12: "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write:.."
    Rev 2:18: "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write:.."'
    Rev 3:1: "And unto the angel of hte church in Sardis write:.."
    Rev 3:7: "And unto the angel of the church in Philedelphia write:.."
    Rev 3:14: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write:.."

    Rev 1:20: "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:..."

    Christians are not to worship angels. That is clear through scripture. What is also clear is that God's orders of angels have purpose and function and are not just sitting around "strumming harps". Their purpose and function is to administrate the plan of God and oversee what God has assigned to them for man's redemption. They play an integral part.

    1 Peter 11: 2Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    Angels are not just hanging over some heavenly balcony looking down on us. They eargely desire to participate and carry out God's plan of redemption. It is a joy for them to serve God with what He assigns to them.

    This education on angelic orders, purpose and function is sorely missing from the Church today. Thus, Satan has had the opportunity to come in and sow many false doctrines and create fear among christians concerning angelic worship. This has cast a shadow of shame upon the Church and discredited the true the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    The "tutorship" of angels in bringing the grace of God is not angelic worship. Christians submit themselves to the "grace" of God. We worship one God, and there is One Mediator. But ignorance of God's plan and how he administrates that plan through the ministry of angels is Satan's deception upon the Church. When Christians do not know how to exercise their faith with the grace of God then they are ignorantly resisting grace.

    When the Church receives an acrcredited education in what the grace of God is, how the grace of God is delivered, how to grow in the grace of God, how to steward the grace of God, then Christians are able to behold Christ in their faith and recieve daily the Witness of Christ.

    Growing in the grace of God is a Second Covenant commandment:

    2 Peter: 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    Stewarding the grace of God is a Second Covenant commandment:

    1 Peter:4:10: As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

    John 1:51: And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    Angels are the ministers of God, who ascend and descend from the Throne of God to adminstrate the judgements of God. Upon the righteous the judgements are for salvation, and thus they deliver the grace of God in the form of revelation, illumination, understanding, enlightenment, etc. the things necessary for the soul to increase in the fruits of godliness and holiness. We do not "work up" these things ourselves, they are authored by Jesus Christ and granted to us a reward for our obedience of faith. The pattern Jesus set was that He did not rely upon His divinity to set a pattern for our faith, He relied upon the grace of God that was brought to him by the ascending and descending angels. That's how He did what the Father "revealed" to Him to do. And thus as we also rely upon the grace of God that is delivered to us we are following the pattern of the Firstborn, Jesus Christ, the captain of our salvation, who shall bring many sons to glory who follow His pattern. This is how we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of ourselves. Man is always trying to adjust his behaviour, his attitude, his flesh, his frailty. take inventory of his strenghts and weakeness and find something he can use to serve God with. THis is not the savlation Christ authors, but will worship, and profits nothing.

    Grace is a magnificent power that God issues daily to the just, so that their faith would be in response to what He initiates. When faith is in response to the grace of God it is righteous and pleasing to the Father because it bears His authorship and stamp of authentication.

    The breach in the Church at this time is that Christian Leadership have redefined the grace of God to a definition of "God's unmerited favor." With this definition a believer cannot function with:.. they cannot grow by it or steward it. There is no direction for faith, no "functionality" for its sanctified expression. When the true definition of the grace of God is restored believers are able to walk in the reality of a true, living and fulfilling relationship with God and experience His daily fatherhood upon their soul for lasting spiritual healing and spiritual transformation. They do not go through mountain/valley experiences and try to "make sense of their suffering." Rather they walk consistently in daily growth cycles, being empowered by the grace of God, and daily experience increase of the fruits of Christ in the soul. I have over 100, 000 testimonies from believers around the world who I have instructed and fellowship with that confirm their joy is now full as they now walk in the simplicity of Christ because of the apostolic education the apostles gave them in the New Covenant.

    Many exercise "aspiration" and view that as faith. Aspiration breeds division, strife, envy and competiton. When aspiration is replaced with faith then the Church will no longer strive against one another, there will be a unity that is not feigned and a oneness that is not deceitful.

    It has been a joy to share the truth of Christ with you.

    May the Lord grant understanding through His grace.

    In Christ,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer



    Melissa wrote
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer,

    First of all, the "angel" references in the passages you cited....there may be angels protecting people and working for God.....however, it is never angels who reveal the things of God to us believers. It's always God Himself....the Holy Spirit.

    To rely on angels in place of God is wrong....

    the following is what the Holy Spirit does:
    JN 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

    JN 14:25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    JN 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

    JN 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

    I was not referring to worshiping angels....what I was referring to was relying on them. There is a difference, though they are both wrong. If you assign those tasks to angels, than what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit?

    Just because 1 Peter 1:11 says "which the angels desire to look into" does not mean that they are revealing truth to people. They may enjoy working for God, but this does not mean that they are to take the Holy Spirit's place. They cannot give people discernment, equip them, sanctify them, teach them the things of God, give spiritual gifts, etc. To give them those functions is to replace the Holy Spirit with angels.


    quoting Apostle JoAnne Cremer:
    This education on angelic orders, purpose and function is sorely missing from the Church today. Thus, Satan has had the opportunity to come in and sow many false doctrines and create fear among christians concerning angelic worship. This has cast a shadow of shame upon the Church and discredited the true the gospel of Jesus Christ.


    My response to her quote:
    Where is the Holy Spirit in your belief system? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. True Christians have a personal relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit speaks to them all the time, convicting them of sin, guiding them, revealing the truth to them, etc. The failure of the church, in your eyes, is because of the lack of right understanding of angels? Where in the Bible does it say that the right undrstanding of angelic orders is essential for the believer's life, as well as the life of the church.

    Please tell me what you consider to be the "true gospel of Jesus Christ." You are implying that this "true gospel of Jesus Christ" is no longer taught in the church.


    quoting Apostle JoAnne Cremer:
    The "tutorship" of angels in bringing the grace of God is not angelic worship. Christians submit themselves to the "grace" of God. We worship one God, and there is One Mediator. But ignorance of God's plan and how he administrates that plan through the ministry of angels is Satan's deception upon the Church. When Christians do not know how to exercise their faith with the grace of God then they are ignorantly resisting grace.


    My response to her quote:
    No, it's not angelic worship, but it's still taking the place of the Holy Spirit. It's teaching a reliance on angels for truth, instead of a reliance on God.

    Tell me what you think God's plan is, since you obviously believe that the church has a corrupted understanding of it.

    Once again, it's the Holy Spirit who teaches us how to walk in a way that is pleasing to God. It has nothing to do with angels. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals truth to people...He is the champion of truth.


    quoting Apostle JoAnne Cremer:
    When the Church receives an acrcredited education in what the grace of God is, how the grace of God is delivered, how to grow in the grace of God, how to steward the grace of God, then Christians are able to behold Christ in their faith and recieve daily the Witness of Christ.


    My response to her quote:
    That is completely taking the Holy Spirit's place!

    You're also referring to head knowledge. What do you have to say about having a personal relationship with God?


    Quoting Apostle JoAnne Cremer:
    Growing in the grace of God is a Second Covenant commandment:

    2 Peter: 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    Stewarding the grace of God is a Second Covenant commandment:

    1 Peter:4:10: As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.



    My respone to her quote:
    We grow in grace through developing an ongoing personal relationship with God. The Holy Spirit continually helps us in this process.


    Quoting Apostole JoAnne Cremer:
    John 1:51: And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    Angels are the ministers of God, who ascend and descend from the Throne of God to adminstrate the judgements of God. Upon the righteous the judgements are for salvation, and thus they deliver the grace of God in the form of revelation, illumination, understanding, enlightenment, etc. the things necessary for the soul to increase in the fruits of godliness and holiness. We do not "work up" these things ourselves, they are authored by Jesus Christ and granted to us a reward for our obedience of faith. The pattern Jesus set was that He did not rely upon His divinity to set a pattern for our faith, He relied upon the grace of God that was brought to him by the ascending and descending angels. That's how He did what the Father "revealed" to Him to do. And thus as we also rely upon the grace of God that is delivered to us we are following the pattern of the Firstborn, Jesus Christ, the captain of our salvation, who shall bring many sons to glory who follow His pattern. This is how we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of ourselves. Man is always trying to adjust his behaviour, his attitude, his flesh, his frailty. take inventory of his strenghts and weakeness and find something he can use to serve God with. THis is not the savlation Christ authors, but will worship, and profits nothing.



    My response to her quote:
    It's not because of angels that we are saved. It's all by Jesus' blood, and only by His blood. The Holy Spirit gives revelation, illumination, understanding, enlightement, etc. The angels do not. It is He that sanctifies us, and it is by Him that we have the fruits of the Spirit. This has nothing to do with angels.

    Jesus had a personal relationship with the Father. Even though Jesus was God Himself too, He needed to be empowered by the Holy Spirit....all of His miracles that He did were by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus constantly relied on the Father....and knew the Father in such an intimate relationship....Jesus always acknolweged the Father in everything that He did and said. His confidence and strength came from the Father. It didn't come from angels. Angels may have descended and ascended on Him, but His reliance was on the Father. The Holy Spirit empowered Him. The angels did not.

    If there was any pattern that Jesus set, it was that we cannot rely on ourselves....we cannot rely on anything other than God. Jesus even said, "Apart from Me you can do nothing." He showed a pattern of submission, obedience, love, and most importantly, cultivating intimacy with the Father. Another way of saying this would be by trusting in God to provide for our every need. Jesus never said that angels would provide for our every need.

    We are saved by grace through trusting in Jesus Christ, through relying on what He did for us on the cross. Through trusting in His blood to cover our sins.....through declaring Him as Lord of our life.


    Quoting Apostle JoAnne Cremer:
    Grace is a magnificent power that God issues daily to the just, so that their faith would be in response to what He initiates. When faith is in response to the grace of God it is righteous and pleasing to the Father because it bears His authorship and stamp of authentication.

    The breach in the Church at this time is that Christian Leadership have redefined the grace of God to a definition of "God's unmerited favor." With this definition a believer cannot function with:.. they cannot grow by it or steward it. There is no direction for faith, no "functionality" for its sanctified expression. When the true definition of the grace of God is restored believers are able to walk in the reality of a true, living and fulfilling relationship with God and experience His daily fatherhood upon their soul for lasting spiritual healing and spiritual transformation. They do not go through mountain/valley experiences and try to "make sense of their suffering." Rather they walk consistently in daily growth cycles, being empowered by the grace of God, and daily experience increase of the fruits of Christ in the soul. I have over 100, 000 testimonies from believers around the world who I have instructed and fellowship with that confirm their joy is now full as they now walk in the simplicity of Christ because of the apostolic education the apostles gave them in the New Covenant.


    My response to her quote:
    So, for you, grace has nothing to do with God's umerited favor? So....what...it can be earned because of having the right attitude and relying on angels?

    I would like to know how I, as a believer in Jesus, cannot function with the defintion of grace being an umerited favor....because I see the cross of Christ, and His grace in that throughout everything that I do.....I don't deserve any of it, yet He lavishes it upon me anyway....it only makes me stand in awe of God, and want to glorify Him.

    As for having no direction for faith, there is too.....that I may grow in my relationship with God, know Him better, glorify Him, and share Him with everyone that I meet. I want to worship Him and serve Him, and bow all of me before Him. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit that I'm able to walk out the Christian life. This has always been God's intention and purpose.

    I could also send you 100, 000 testimonies from believers who have been transformed by the power of God, by trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior....and who have an intimate, personal relationship with God.


    Quoting Apostle Cremer:

    It has been a joy to share the truth of Christ with you.

    May the Lord grant understanding through His grace.


    My resposne:
    It is my joy to also share in this discussion with you. I also am praying for you, that the Holy Spirit would show you the truth and understanding.


    Melissa wrote
    If you are not preaching the gospel that the church holds to, then you are preaching another gospel and another Jesus!!!

    GAL 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!


    Also, notice in this verse how it says "if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you...

    You are claiming that angels are preaching your gospel. Angels don't preach the true gospel.


    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote
    Greetings to everyone,

    I think this is a very good topic of discussion as many believers are often left scratching their head about this passage of scripture and how to understand it in its proper context.

    So many people today look to Jesus as a someone they can model their behaviour after. They end up coming up with thousands of "principles" or "steps" on centering on moral action and moral standard as a means to express faith and to express righteousness. But if we observe Jesus' actions here we will see that He was not setting a standard for faith or righteousness based on the moral code, otherwise He would have affirmed that the Law of Moses was indeed correct and she should have been punished by that law.

    Jesus did not judge the woman caught in adultery because he was demonstrating that the moral code was not the standard by which judgement is righteous.

    Jesus did not come to the earth to set a moral code for behaviour, nor to affirm any one else's moral code. He came to set a pattern for the expression of faith so that the expression would meet His standard of rightousness.

    This is just one of many examples in the earthly ministry of Jesus where we observe Jesus demonstrating that the moral center is not equal to God's righteousness.

    We are in fact commanded to judge. But our judgement must not be in partiality or according to one's frailty, flesh, conscience, aspiration, ambition, signature strength or skill, or the wisdom of the world. Our judgement must be according to truth, according to the standard Jesus set for the New Covenant expression of faith. When faith is judged by this standard, it is called "righteous judgement." The spiritual man judges all things, but is judged by no one.

    The paradox Christians experience when speaking about judging is that they perceive from the perspective of the flesh, in making "carnal judgements" one toward another. The apostles did not teach this, rather they taught judgement according to "assessing the doctrine one is embracing, to see whether it be of God or of seducing spirits." This type of judgement is righteous and commanded that we carry out, as we see apostle John saying, "try the spirits, to see whether they be of God." The apostles repeatedly admonished their converts to not be persuaded by enticing words of man's wisdom, that would toss their soul to and fro and make them prey to wolves. No matter the century or continent, there are wolves in sheep's clothing who bring in damning teachings that center your faith on the "Increase" of material riches and fleshly gain, rather than the riches of Christ which are the virtues of Him, which spiritually transform the soul to His image and likeness.

    When properly instructed by confirmed covenant apostles in the foundation of truth, these things are very easy to understand, easy to carry out, easy to walk in and easy to live by. The judgement of the spiritual man is to bring the soul to the fullness of the stature of Christ so that it can abide in the liberty and salvation of Christ. When judgement is according to the pattern of grace and truth, there is no strife, enmity, competition, or coveteousness; rather there is peace among the brethren, unity of faith as all confess and confirm Christ through one truth.

    I thank God that the liberty of Jesus Christ is not set in the corruptible things of gold and silver, or in man's imagination and perception, but in the Word of Life, the Oath of the Son.

    Prospering spiritually and Increasing After the True Riches,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer


    Melissa wrote
    Apsotles JoAnne Cremer,

    With all due respect, I must disagree with you on some of the things you have written here.

    Jesus didn't judge the women because He saw no wrong in adultery, but because He had compassion on her.

    Jesus obviously still viewed adultry as sin....because He told her, "Go and sin no more." Also, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman lustfully, that they have committed adultery in their hearts. They are guilty of adultery. Paul also affirmed that sexual immorality was a sin.

    Jesus' death on the cross does not mean that God no longer considers sin as sin. It just means that we can be forgiven.....that our sins are forgiven because of what Jesus did. Our sin has been paid for by Jesus' blood. This does not give us a license to sin. We do not earn our way into heaven by obeying God's laws and trying to be good. We can never be good enough. Grace is an undeserved gift. However, in light of this grace, because we love God....in response we try not to break God's heart by sinning.

    God doesn't change His view of sin just because of the cross. To Him, sin is still sin.

    Because we love God, we should make it our aim to glorify Him in all that we do.....sin does not glorify God, and it grieves the Holy Spirit.

    I also disagree with your stance on why Jesus came. Jesus came to die....He came to do what we could not do on our own....He lived a sinless life, suffered for us, and then died in our place....in order to bring us back into relationship with God. He came to give us life...and to give us hope.....most importantly to pay for our sins so that we would not have to. He came to rescue us from sin.


    Melissa


    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote
    There are an endless amount of questions Chistians have about moral behaviour. Why? Because the Church today uses a moral code to guide their expression of faith instead of the Law of Grace and Truth.... which is the New Covenant law Jesus gave for our faith.

    Jesus did not come to set an example of morality. He came to set a pattern for the expression of faith. In order for faith to be acceptable to God, the expression of it must be restricted to the boundaries (the tools, knowledge, contact points & commandments) of the New Covenant. Believers "transgress" against God when their faith is expressed outside the contact points of the New Covenant. That is a sin.

    Sin is an entire system. It is not one act here or there... it is a system. The soul under the system of sin is like a burnt house after a fire. All the memory files are distorted by sin, and the fruit of that kingdom fills the soul, and the soul reflects the image of Satan as he parented it while it was in his kingdom. Christ provides healing for the soul through His mediatorial work when believers commune with Him daily by the new covenant prieshtood. This is the spiritual transformation He promise, the healing, the deliverance, the salvation. True apostles give instruction in teh foundation of truth so that believers are able to daily make cognitive choices of faith, so that they their fellowship with God will be productive to bear the fruits of the Spirit within the soul. This is the the "work of regeneration" that God authors in our soul, so that we might be the image of Jesus instead of the image of Satan. Temperance is one of the fruits born in the soul through the work of the Spirit as we touch the Father by the tools of Christ.

    When Christians are properly trained by apostles, they do not resource a moral code for their walk with God; rather they resource the Record of Christ and reciprocate the knowledge of Christ.

    God put a moral code in us, but it is not to be used as a law of righteousness, otherwise we would have 6 billion laws of righteousness. There is only one law of righteousness, and that is Christ.

    This is a point of transition the Church will go through as the Apostles transition it back to the New Covenant. Faith will then once again be tethered to truth instead of the moral center, the imagination, and the apsiration.

    We are not to judge one another according to what we do in our own home. We judge one another according to "faith" and faith alone. Is faith perfectly expressing Christ? If not, then come to the apostles and learn how. If faith is perfectly expressing Christ, then praise God, express it continually that more fruit may be born in your soul and the other brethren may be nourished by the expression of the good words of faith. This is how we love one another.

    God is judging faith, not our frailty.

    When faith is cognitive and competent, we are given to wanting to please the Father and build the House of God. That means we don't speculate, compete, oppress, provoke and principle one another with carnal things, rather we labor circumspectly, sowing liberally to the Spirit by our stewardship of the grace of God so that all may be fed the bread of Christ. When Christians are properly educated by apostles to the terms and tools of the New Covenant this is an easy yoke to carry each day. It is a delight and joy to exchange the knowledge of Christ one with another because it draws "faith" from the heart and edifies the soul. This is how we abide in Him and in the Unity of the Faith.

    I hope those notes encouraged you in Christ.

    A prophecy for your edification:

    "The counsel of righteousness adorns the soul in beauty, for it is by the power of grace that we are transformed from the beastly to the divine, wherein we become sons of God, offspring of the Most High."

    Laboring in the New Covenant priesthood,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer


    Melissa wrote
    Okay...first realize two things....there is a difference between drinking and getting drunk. Drinking is not, in and of itself, sin. Getting drunk is.

    I suppose you need to look at the question this way, instead of thinking "what can't I do..." you need to consider "if I do this, would it be glorifying to God....would it hurt my relationship with Him." You need to view it from the standard of love.

    You also need to consider why you are drinking, because that will answer your question. If you want to drink because you are trying to deal with something in your life, and you think that drinkng will help you cope with it....then I would say that it's probably not in your best interest to drink. Why? Because it's hurting your relationship with God. It's causing you to turn to drinking to comfort you instead of turning to God to be your comfort. You're relying on something else instead of God.

    If you're just drinking as a social reason.....and your intention is not to get drunk, and you have a set limit....and drink in moderation, and are responsible....or if you are just drinking as part of your meal.....I don't think that's sin.

    There is one other factor that you need to think of - do you have an issue with alchohol in the past...have you been addicted to it? In your drinking in the past, if you have drunk, has it ever caused you to hurt someone else or caused you to do something you regretted later....and are you going to be driving? If the answer to any of that is yes, then it also is not in your best interest to drink.

    I personally do not drink. It's my choice not to. I don't see any benefit from drinking. That's just me, though. I don't condemn other Christians who decide to drink.

    Adultery is clearly a sin in the Bible.....whatever motive it is, the motive is wrong....there can be no good motive behind sin.

    What are the motives behind adultery, let's see:
    1.) to satisfy your own desires
    2.) to get back at someone or to make someone jealous

    Um....those are the only two that I can think of. I do not see how adultery could ever be a loving act. It always hurts another person...if you are married, your spouse, if you are not, then your future spouse. Jesus said that all the commandments could be boiled down to two things....loving God and loving other people

    I don't think that adultery is acting out of love or glorifying to Him in any way whatsoever.


    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote
    Excellent question. I would like to assist with this clarification by providing a teaching from the apostles' office:

    The biblical ground is that Apostle Paul was setting a judgement, not a new covenant commandment.

    The Church, not being instructed by living apostles in the foundation of truth, is unable to rightly divide the scriptures or the covenants, and privately interprets the scripture and comes up with the "precept" instead of the Record of Christ. Precept is by imagination, but the Record of Christ by the truth delivered through apostles.

    Let's look at the Gender commandments of the New Covenant.

    What are the GENDER commandments of the New Covenant? What is the doctrine concerning gender? When the apostle Paul wrote in Gal.3:28 that, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither MALE nor FEMALE; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus" was this a commandment, a statute, a precept, a judgment, testimony, or ordinance?

    In order to rightly divide the word of God we have to know what to look for. Many people say that this scripture simply means that male and female both receive equal inheritance. Yes, this is true, but this scripture says, "...you are all one IN CHRIST." What is IN Christ, merely an inheritance, or does He also mediate the present covenant, and represent His work through the gifts, callings, and graces of God?

    In rightly dividing this scripture we must look at the present covenant that Christ is mediating and how He represents the work of this covenant.

    The reference in this scripture to being 'IN CHRIST' tells us that God erased the gender lines at the point of access which is Christ. Therefore, all that is in Him is gender free; what is in Christ is not limited by gender any more than it is limited by race.

    Thus the commandment is universal, and deals with all believers for all time. The operation of the Spirit will continue to function by this law, and so should the government of God within the Church.

    Whether male or female, all believers can function on an equal basis with what God has made available in Christ. Whether male or female, all can and should prophesy, share dreams or visions, share in the callings, pray, share words of knowledge, etc.

    So why did the apostle write, "Let your women keep silence in the Churches; for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law, " I Cor.14:34, 35.

    Now we must again rightly divide the word of God; for you see, there is never a contradiction within the mystery. We must simply answer the question, "Was this a commandment, a statute, a precept, a judgment, testimony, or ordinance?"

    When the apostle John wrote his second epistle he wrote, "The elder unto the elect lady and her children, " this was not an isolated letter that was written to an acquaintance, but was addressed to an elder in the assembly which was responsible for the care of the saints. This elder was a woman.

    If the scripture in I Cor14:34, 35 were a commandment then it would have been difficult for her to minister, she would not have been allowed to speak in the assembly. So we see that what Paul wrote about "women keeping silent in the Churches" was not a universal commandment, the doctrine of our faith.

    If we look at the function which Jesus mediates within the assembly, we again see the things that are 'in Christ', we see the operation of God which is in connection with the covenant (those things which are needed for your sanctification), and we see this commandment, "you may all prophecy one by one, " I Cor.14:31; this is the doctrine of our faith because it is in connection with what the Spirit uses to sanctify us.

    A woman could not have obeyed this commandment if she is not to speak in the Church. Therefore she would not have had access to the point of transaction that Jesus mediates for her edification. She could not fulfill the commandment that Paul gave in I Cor.14:12, "Even so you, forasmuch as you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that you may excel to the edifying of the Church, " if she had to keep silent.

    Therefore, when rightly dividing this word, we see that the admonition for women to keep silence in the Church was not a commandment, but A JUDGMENT -- That which the Spirit initiates for the saints to do at the time, setting a policy for our activity based on present circumstance.

    ***********************

    What does it mean to 'rightly divide' the word of truth? The scriptures were written to provide a record of God's communication with man. The scriptures are divided into areas that address:

    1. The present covenant that man is under.
    2. The previous covenant man was under.
    3. The covenant that is to come.
    4. The commandments of each covenant.
    5. The statutes of each covenant.
    6. The precepts of each covenant.
    7. The judgments of each covenant.
    8. The testimonies of each covenant.
    9. The ordinances of each covenant.
    10. The law of each covenant.
    11. The types and shadows and how they are fulfilled.
    12. The doctrine of our faith.
    God's law reveals all the doctrines which a believer must use to fully identify with the PRESENT COVENANT. The law contains the commandments, statutes, precepts, judgments, testimonies and ordinances.

    Commandments: Identifies the operation of God that we must be active with for our faith; the ordered activity of our faith.

    Statutes: Are the laws which cover a task or policy restricted by time.

    Precepts: The laws which govern a Christian's moral activity.

    Judgments: That which the Spirit initiates for the saints to do at the time, setting a policy for our activity based on present circumstance.

    Testimonies: Are the acts of God; that which we witness or reflect on to testify of God's involvement; can be oral or written.

    Ordinances: A rite or ceremony which is accepted for that place. A law which is restricted only to that area by the apostle.

    Doctrines: What we identify with in our faith; collectively, all doctrine within a system is called truth for that system.

    *********** I hope these notes have helped clarify the Doctrine of Jesus Christ on this subject. I will post the full lesson the Second 8th Week Apostles' University provides on this as a new post for full context reading.

    In Christ,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer


    Melissa wrote
    Rich Nathan, pastor at the Vineyard Church of Columbus, and who is on the USA Vineyard's national board wrote an argument for why he believes that women should be allowed in the ministry. He really backs it up with Scripture, and I really like what he has to say:

    http://www.vineyardcolumbus.org/about/what_we_believe/files/position_paper_Women-In-Ministry-Rich_Nathan.pdf


    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote
    This has been an interesting dicussion and I would like to share a follow up comment:

    Women do not need anyone to "allow" them into ministry and they do not need anyone's permission. People have written on this subject for years, but it is Jesus Christ that calls all Christians to the believer's priesthood, and then to an office of God's government. ALL are called. Not just a few. Every Christian is called to function in the New Covenant priesthood and God has a calling to one of the 5 offices for ALL christians. This is how we raise up new converts in each generation to the fullness of the stature of Christ.

    These are points the Church will come to understand as the Apostles take it through the Great Transition back to the New Covenant pattern for faith.

    I am currently establishing churches in many locations around the world with the other apostles of the Second 8th Week, and we are training and confirming into government men and women. The process is simple and uncomplicated by man's traditions and aspirations.

    "They who abide in the Light of Christ serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling, for great is the mercy of God upon the children of righteousness."

    Building the kingdom of God with grace and truth,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer


    Melissa wrote
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer,

    I worded it like that because of the opinions of so many in the body of Christ who do not think that women should be allowed to.

    It's good to know that the Second 8th Week is doing this, but so are other chruches.


    Apostle JoAnne Cremer wrote:
    Dear Friends,

    Since this group is about sharing how lives have been changed, I thought it would be appropriate and edifying to share this testimony here.

    This is a letter that came to me Friday from one of my students in Kenya, who is a pastor of a congregation there. He is only on his 4th lesson of the apostolic education to the New Covenant I am providing to him through the Apostles' University. It is a great blessing to see people liberated into the simplicity and fullness of Jesus Christ and be freed from exploitation and manipulative doctrines that cause so much spiritual confusion and suffering.

    He writes:

    "Up to when I joined S8WU I had believed for many years that faith is about changing my world, changing my life, my environment and that as a child of God I had always to be the head and never the tail. I was perpetually in struggle with life and the devil.

    Instead of carrying the Lords yoke which is light and easy, I was tired of this heavy burden of trying to convince my self that I was truly living in victory as a child of God.

    There was so much contradiction between what I thought the word of God taught me and my ever struggling and often defeated Christian life. The sermons all around me, the Christian literature, commentaries, fellowships and music had a different rhythm and sang differently from the yearning of my inner soul.

    I had the call of God. I struggled with this for a very long time especially due to some contradictions in my practical life as compared to what I thought was the ideal. I could not see how my ministry will finally work with peace and the victory that Christ has guaranteed us through the 2nd covenant. My life has been through many ups and downs, extreme mountains and valleys, that all left me confused, and frustrated.

    Since I found out about S8WU I have started to experience the real fruits of spiritual transformation and have a fulfilling relationship with God without the wearisome struggles trying to please God, myself, fellow ministers, and immediate family etc.

    The instructions of truth by I have been receiving through the S8W University lessons has completely set me at a different spiritual plane. Not even one month, and I can say for sure, there is so much hope and vibrancy bubbling within me. I have the assurance of God’s Holly spirit that I have truly come to the right fellowship of disciplers and leadership of Christ’s Government. I am aware the Apostles will set the complete foundation of truth in my heart and equip me to know and serve God perfectly.

    Formerly, I was always under pressure and challenge to use my own powers IN JESUS NAME!!!! to address, perceive, measure, and correct circumstances. Satan always had me hooked to something optional to faith, and I had been erroneously taught for years (and had also taught others) that with Jesus all things were possible as long as we used His "Name." After all that is what scripture says! He was a saviour by being our problem solver!! I never understood the Lord’s new covenant tools, and had no idea of the Altar of Christ built with whole stones of Christ's truth as per God’s prescription. There was no possibility I could ever have been transformed spiritually.

    I gathered a lot of books on positive living and positive faith. I had been taught about kingdom declarations and Governmental prayers, which actually all centered on my desires, ambitions, dreams and life of abundance. The word of God was meant to facilitate harnessing my God given potential to turn situations into favorable outcomes. Now I know this was very deceptive. I wanted and desired to do things the Jesus did them in the Gospels and expected to be at peace with the Lord apart from the covenant of Jesus Christ.

    My recent years had a lot of financial challenges and Satan exploited my fears of lack and led to read a lot of materials that let me belief God wanted me to live in abundance, as promised in His word. Whenever things went wrong in my business, I had devil and demons or someone else to blame.

    In the short time I have been with S8WU, I have learnt what I did not learn for three decades of Christianity. I have learnt that Jesus did not come to set a pattern of how to overcome lack, or how to look to Him as a model for problem solving. I had always believed that Power through Jesus Name was to be used to solve any problem and that the gospel message was to provide a power that we could use to remove contradiction and suffering. I never knew He came to empower us by His Spirit for spiritual transformation. Healing of our souls from iniquity."

    ***********

    Praise God for the simplicity of Jesus Christ. When faith is removed from the things of man's passions, imaginations, and flesh and re-centered back onto Jesus Christ and the transformation of the soul... the soul truely begins to experience the tangible power of Christ.

    "They who know God walk in cadence to His Spirit and fruitbearers in His Love."

    Rejoicing in the liberty of Jesus Christ and building faith by His grace,
    Apostle JoAnne

  • Here are the impressions I got when my friend first asked me what I thought of her:

    First glimpse:
    As to the Apostle JoAnee stuff, I went to their website...they have a statement of faith posted. I read it. It seems to be okay, but it's not very detailed. That could be a problem.

    There's another kind of cult that permeates a lot of stuff in society, and that's the New Age Movement. It seeks to replace God with self. The New Thought movement is related to it. I'm a little concerned that this second 8th week may have a little of this stuff in it.

    Something bothers me about this ministry...and I'm not exactly sure what it is. I'd be very careful of them. One thing that puts up a red flag for me is that she calls herslef an Apostle.

    I think I'm going to send her a message here on MySpace and ask her why she calls herself an apostle. Paul was an apostle and so were the disciples....because they lived in the timeframe of Jesus.

    This 8th week ministry reminds me of a cult or something. I also read part of a blog she wrote, and she wrote something like : "the gospel, whatever that is to you." That reeks of New Ageish type thinking.

    I would stay away from 8th week ministry if I were you. Something is wrong....and this is just from getting a very quick glimpse at their website and her MySpace page.

    Her teachings in her blogs don't seem inspired by the Holy Spirit...that was my impression. Usually when I read something or hear something, the Holy Spirit confirms for me that it's truth. It's hard to explain, other than the fact that I know it's from Him. The truth hits my heart in a way that only God can do. I feel convicted when something is true.

    This doesn't necessarily mean that her teachings aren't from God....but I highly question it. I would use great caution when listening to her. Really ask God for discernment.


    Second Impression of her
    Okay, she replied back to me....let me just say that my caution with her has now been raised:

    She and her Government of God thingy are trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit. What I get from her response here is that a person can only gain the truth from studying from her.

    This is not true at all. Here...let me give you Scripture as to why I disagree with her ministry:

    First, I guess it would be good to give you Scripture about what the Holy Spirit is to do in the life of a believer. You already know that the Holy Spirit is God, via the Trinity explanation I sent you earlier.

    Well, He is the member of the Godhead who is primiarly responsible for bringing the truth to people. He also sanctifies people (makes them holy), and He brings life....both physical and spiritual. See the River Valley Vineyard's sermons (I called it the Delaware Vineyard on the links I sent you)....there was a sermon on the Holy Spirit about a year ago that was pretty awesome, and a pretty good explanation of who He is and what He does.

    Hee hee....I just found the notes the the sermon the other day....conquencedence...I don't think so :) Go to Novemeber 12, 2006. That's one of the Holy Spirit sermons he gave...there was a whole series of them that Larry McWherter did around that time.

    But here is Scripture:
    JN 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth.

    JN 14:25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    JN 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

    JN 16:5 "Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, ..Where are you going?' 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

    JN 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

    She is also implying that without going through her New Covenent ministries program, we can't understand Jesus' blood shed on the cross......She is totally removing the Holy Spirit's power.

    Not only that, but she doesn't realize that when someone is filled with the Holy Spirit, they can overcome the stuff she's talking about.....and it's only by the Holy Spirit...not some ministry thing.

    GAL 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

    The Holy Spirit is the One who is to equip the believer.

    I find her teaching promlematic because of this, and I suggest staying away from her teaching. She's trying to replace the Holy Spirit with herself and the Government organization....a lot like Jehovah's Witnesses do with the Watchtower.

    ----------------- Original Message -----------------
    From: Apostle JoAnne Cremer
    Date: Sep 5, 2007 10:41 AM


    Dear Melissa,

    I identify my calling because it is important for Christians to know who to come to to receive their accredited education to Christ and the New Covenant. Apostles are the authorized office of the Government of God to disseminate the gospel. The early apostles also identied their calling too. This is not a boast, but important so that you know who is the authorized contact point for your faith. Confirmed, covenant apostles are vital for the Church, yet have been missing from the Church for my centuries and this is why so many Christians are confused, cannot overcome sin, and do not know their purpose and destiny, nor any of the spiriutal tools of the New Covenant Jesus shed His blood to provide for our salvation. They have been given man-made doctrines that tethered their faith to the things of the imagination, the aspiration, the flesh, etc. instead of Jesus Christ for the spiriutal transformation of the soul.

    I have written extensively about the Apostle's Office and Second 8th Week Apostles' University on my blogs. The Second 8th Week Apostles are working around the world now and returning the Church back to the New Covenant, through accredited education to Jesus Christ's New Covenant terms.

    The reason you don't hear much about this is because we are not a flamboyant multi-million dollar ministry. Our entire staff volunteers their time and gives away all the education and humanitarian services free of charge. We do not collect tithes or charge for anything. We freely give what we have freely received.

    We have a full range of lessons that equip believers to walk in the fullness of Christ daily. We have a Foundation Series Training Program and a Leadership Training and Accreditation Program. Many leaders from around the world have enrolled and are now transitioning their entire congregations with our educatoin program and we have thousands upon thousands of testimonies of how Christians are experiencing daily sucess in their spiritual growth and spiritual transformation.

    I would recommend you do these things.

    1. Read my myspace page more carefully, as I have written alot there for visitors to gain more information.

    2. Read all my blogs for more information, especially the earlier ones. For your ease I have listed out the blog titles and links at this site:

    http://s8wstudentresources.com/?q=node/684

    Copy that and put it in your browser window. You can peruse the titles and click on the ones you want to view easily. You can also listen to some of my sermons there.. just find the ones that mention audio file. When you listen to just one you'll gain much understanding.

    3. Visit the S8W Student Resources Board and read some of the articles there and you can get a taste of what the believers who are being trained are saying.

    http://s8wstudentresources.com

    4. Sign up the University for the Foundation Series Training Program. Its free and self paced, via Distance Learning.

    http://www.second8thweek.com

    I hope these pieces of information have been helpful to you my sister.

    If you have any more questions, please feel free to write me back. I'll be in prayer for you :)

    Yours in Christ,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer


    ----------------- Original Message -----------------
    From: Melissa
    Date: Sep 5, 2007 1:13 PM


    I was wondering if you could tell me why you call yourself an Apostle....and also why others in the second 8th week ministry call themselves apostles. I was also wondering if you could explain more what you believe the gospel message is.

    The reason I'm doing this is because a friend of mine asked me what I thought of you. I had never heard of you or your ministry program before....so I wanted you to answer those questions for me. Thank you.

    My actual response to her, which she did not reply to
    I wanted to thank you for responding to me. I do have some further questions....

    What do you think of the Holy Spirit? What do you think of the Holy Spirit's role in the life of a believer?

    The reason I'm asking this is because I find what you're telling me to be problematic and contrary to Scripture. See, from what I'm reading of what you said, you've removed the Holy Spirit from the life of a Christian.

    Why are only apostles able to share the gospel? I believe that the Holy Spirit equips all believers to share the gospel.

    I also do not think that lack of "apostles" is the cause for some Christians being confused and not being able to overcome sin. It never has been in the power of men, even apostles, that people can overcome sin. It's only by the Holy Spirit. All Christians can rely on the Holy Spirit and be led by Him. Everyone who declares Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior has a personal relationship with God. He convicts of sin, and the things we need to work on in our life. That's what Scripture says, and that's been my own experience.

    It's also the Holy Spirit, and Him alone, who leads people to the truth. He is the champion of truth....He leads us, affirms for us that we belong to God...He equips us with the knowledge and spiritual gifts that we can do to glorify Him, He leads us in the direction we need to go. He's God.

    You also seem to be implying that it's only through your ministry program that believers can understand the truth and can understand the gospel....about Jesus' blood shed on the cross. What about the Holy Spirit leading people to the truth and reminding them of it?

    Furthermore, it is the Holy Spirit who equips the believer. It is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us and changes us. It is from Him that I learn and grow. He trains me in the truth.

    (To see what I specifically am writing in response to, please see what I have bolded in response to you)

    Let me explain better...how do you veiw the following verses:

    JN 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth.

    JN 14:25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    JN 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

    JN 16:5 "Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, ..Where are you going?' 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

    JN 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

    GAL 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.


    ----------------- Original Message -----------------
    From: Apostle JoAnne Cremer
    Date: Sep 5, 2007 10:41 AM


    Dear Melissa,

    I identify my calling because it is important for Christians to know who to come to to receive their accredited education to Christ and the New Covenant. Apostles are the authorized office of the Government of God to disseminate the gospel. The early apostles also identied their calling too. This is not a boast, but important so that you know who is the authorized contact point for your faith. Confirmed, covenant apostles are vital for the Church, yet have been missing from the Church for my centuries and this is why so many Christians are confused, cannot overcome sin, and do not know their purpose and destiny, nor any of the spiriutal tools of the New Covenant Jesus shed His blood to provide for our salvation. They have been given man-made doctrines that tethered their faith to the things of the imagination, the aspiration, the flesh, etc. instead of Jesus Christ for the spiriutal transformation of the soul.

    I have written extensively about the Apostle's Office and Second 8th Week Apostles' University on my blogs. The Second 8th Week Apostles are working around the world now and returning the Church back to the New Covenant, through accredited education to Jesus Christ's New Covenant terms.

    The reason you don't hear much about this is because we are not a flamboyant multi-million dollar ministry. Our entire staff volunteers their time and gives away all the education and humanitarian services free of charge. We do not collect tithes or charge for anything. We freely give what we have freely received.

    We have a full range of lessons that equip believers to walk in the fullness of Christ daily. We have a Foundation Series Training Program and a Leadership Training and Accreditation Program. Many leaders from around the world have enrolled and are now transitioning their entire congregations with our educatoin program and we have thousands upon thousands of testimonies of how Christians are experiencing daily sucess in their spiritual growth and spiritual transformation.

    I would recommend you do these things.

    1. Read my myspace page more carefully, as I have written alot there for visitors to gain more information.

    2. Read all my blogs for more information, especially the earlier ones. For your ease I have listed out the blog titles and links at this site:

    http://s8wstudentresources.com/?q=node/684

    Copy that and put it in your browser window. You can peruse the titles and click on the ones you want to view easily. You can also listen to some of my sermons there.. just find the ones that mention audio file. When you listen to just one you'll gain much understanding.

    3. Visit the S8W Student Resources Board and read some of the articles there and you can get a taste of what the believers who are being trained are saying.

    http://s8wstudentresources.com

    4. Sign up the University for the Foundation Series Training Program. Its free and self paced, via Distance Learning.

    http://www.second8thweek.com

    I hope these pieces of information have been helpful to you my sister.

    If you have any more questions, please feel free to write me back. I'll be in prayer for you :)

    Yours in Christ,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer

    My third impression of her
    I'm listening to the tutors and governors one....

    I still feel like she's trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit who regenerates man....I think she's totally eliminating Him from everything. She also seems to be saying that angels are now taking the Holy Spirit's place.

    Another important thing is...do you have a Bible with the New Testament in it?
    If you don't:
    http://www.biblegateway.com

    I suggest reading either the New International Version (NIV) or New American Standard Bible (NASB) because they are easier to understand than the King James Version, which is what she's using.

    This is extremely important that you are able to read the Bible yourself, and not just rely on what a person says. You need to make sure that everything that you read and learn is conistent with Scripture.

    I don't agree with her talking about angels doing all that stuff....it's actually the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual gifts....not the angels. The Holy Spirit is God...not an angel. She's replacing other things with the Holy Spirit. That's a huge problem. That's setting people up to possibly be deceived by a false spirit....by angels that are actually demonic. This is what happens with Jehovah's Witnesses. They claim that their revelation is from "angels of light." This is what happened with the guy who started Mormonism. This is what happens with many cult leaders.

    She's also saying that we can't understand perfectly unless we are under an Apostle. Paul never claimed to be on the level of the Holy Spirit. Paul was an Apostle, yet he never claimed to be the only means a person could understand the gospel.

    I also have a problem with what she said about Campus Crusade for Christ.....she says it's faith outside of the grace of God, and that it is unproductive. I was a part of Campus Crusade in college. She's calling it idolotry....and she insinuates that all Christians outside of her organization or her teachings are idoloters.

    Christianity is all about a personal relationship with God. It is not dependent on what orgnizations or group you belong to. I had a very real experience with God on Campus Crusade's Big Break trips. It's never the event, but it's God Himself who changes hearts. It's an experience of God that's important....it's meeting with Him.

    The stuff she's talking about - being renewed and stuff - that only comes from a personal relationship with God. It's an intimate relationship with Him.

    Some of the stuff she is talking about is okay....but I would stay away from her teachings. There are plenty of other Christians that you could listen to that are more spiritually ground.

    I'm going to give you some of the sermons that I've heard that are right in line with Scripture. You could listen to them just as you listen to her. I would try not to listen to her much.

    Just as you requested, I'll listen to 3 of her talks.

    My fourth impression of her
    Yes, He can...He can do miracles....

    But, really, I care about you Guy. I really think that Apostle JoAnne is running more of a cult than anything else. She's telling you that you can only learn the truth from her and her Apostelistic organization.

    That's contrary to biblical teaching. It really is. I'm afraid that you're depending too much on her. I'm afraid that she is misleading you. That's why I really think you need to get biblical truth from other sources as well.

    It's dangerous for Christians to put all their faith in just one teacher or organization. It's Christ, and only Him that matters. All Christians that I know get their teachings from more than just one source. For instance me - I have read several Christian books, I read the Bible, I have a relationship with God and learn from Him, I go to three churches - one when I'm at home, one when there's other people that will go to the big Vineyard, and one that I normally attend on Sunday mornings. I also have Christian friends that I learn from. I don't just learn from the Vineyard either. I've learned a lot from Big Break, Christmas Conference, Niagara 2000....just in my daily walk with God.

    I don't just rely on one source, and ultimately, I don't just rely on humans. The most important thing is to rely on God.

    I'm warning you about this because I care about you....if you only rely on what Apostle JoAnne says, you're setting yourself up to trust in humans and not God, and you're allowing yourself to be able to be led into a cult.

    I put the sermons up there because I wanted you to be able to have something to compare JoAnne's teachings to. I wanted you to have another source other than just her....and they're really deep stuff. I got a lot out of them. The sermons are from several different sources - Rich Nathan, Larry McWeirter, Nancy Cullen, Rick Provard, and some others. They all speak the truth out of their love for God.

    Please, I'm begging you, listen to at least one every week.

    Because if what Apostle JoAnne is teaching is correct, then it should line up with all other Christian teachings, by other Christians who are led by the Spirit.

    I know for certain that the people who I gave you the sermons from are led by the Spirit. Their words line up with every other Spirit led Christian that I have ever read, heard, or seen.

    If there is any question that her teachings do not line up with the Spirit, then it should cause you to question her teachings. I know that you think she's led by the Spirit....and if she is, then there would be no problem in comparing it to other Christians.

    You see, there is only one Holy Spirit, and what He tells one Christian cannot be in contradiction to what He tells another Christian, as far as teachings and doctrine is concerned. He does give some Christians more understanding on a topic than others, but there is still no contradiction. This is why it's very rich to be able to listen to the teachings from different Christians. All teachings from the Spirit should compliment and supplement other teachings. This is what I know to be true.

    If JoAnne's teachings are in contradiction, that means that she's not getting it all from the Holy Spirit, and you need to be cautious....and I would say stop all connections with her.

    All pastors should be scrutinized....if they are teaching false stuff, then you shouldn't listen to them. It means that they are a false teacher or a false prophet.

    What makes Apostle JoAnne sound like a cult is her instistence that people can only learn the truth through her apostlistic program. She also is trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit.

    I do trust that you have good judgment, but even people with good judgment can be deceived and led into a cult. Jesus warned about this. In these times we have to be especially careful.

    There are several sources of witness that you can have to know God's will....

    1) Commanding Scripture - it needs to line up with Scripture. If it doesn't, then that means that it's not from God.

    Example: "do not commit adultry"

    you don't have to wonder if it's God's will for you to have sex outside of marriage. It's commanded in Scripture not to have sex outside of marriage.

    2.) Compelling Spirit - do you fee compelled by the Spirit, you feel like an intense urge....like He's leading you to do something or not do something. If He gives you a strong desire, or you know something is against the Spirit....and He will let you know, this is another source

    3.) Common Sense - God gave you a mind to reason with.

    4.) Counsel of the saints - (saints meaning other believers in Jesus) - what about your fellow Christian friends....if they confirm it, then that is a stronger indication of something. If they strongly discourage you from something, that too is another strong indicator.

    5.) Circumstancial signs - this is like God opening the door by arranging something in your life to allow for it to happen, or putting something in your life that leads to it.

    Now, here's the caution, you have to be very careful not to just rely on any one of these, as they can all mislead you. But, if all 5 of these things seems to agree, and you have really talked to God about it and spent a lot of time with Him on it...really sought Him on the issue, then you probably know the answer to something.

    I'm not saying that JoAnne is a cult, but I am saying that she has many characteristics of running a cult.....that's my caution to you. I do believe that God has His hand on you, but that doesn't mean that everything Apostle JoAnne says is truth. Just because God is definitely changing your life doesn't mean that you need to put all your trust in JoAnne.

    I'll watch it, and I still have two more of Apostle JoAnne's lectures to listen to, as promised...I just haven't done that yet. I said I would listen to them, and I will. I'll give you my comments...

    but my main problems with her still exist....it's right on her MySpace page. She says that a person needs to go through her Aposlte training program stuff in order to understand the Bible. The other problem is how she is taking the place of the Holy Spirit. Those two problems are major for me, and I feel strongly about this.

    You see, "all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." (1 Corinthians 10:23) This goes with biblical teachings too...it's something that God has shown me, connected to that verse. Just because a particular pastor or teacher or person quotes from the Bible does not mean they have truth. Many groups use the Bible and twist it. Not everyone who conducts a Bible study is doing so in alignment with Scripture and the Holy Spirit. Not all Bible studies are good, just because they are Bible studies. They are not always beneficial.
    <br> I'll watch the video and let you know what I think, though. :)

    Here is my opinion of the video you sent me:

    It's the Holy Spirit who teaches....

    something bothers me about Apostle JoAnne, and I can't quite put my finger on it.....

    It's like it's all head stuff....I don't know exaclty how to explain it....but she's talking intellectually and out of her head......and maybe that's part of what bothers me about her

    I have a hard time seeing where she's getting some of the stuff from the passages.....

    it just feels that something's missing in her preaching, as if she's not truly talking out of her heart. This is the impression I get.

    She has no passion for God, and I find her teachings to be full of a lot of fluff, they seem fakey, and they are about as stimulating as staring at a blank wall.

  • Here's another profile of someone involved in 2nd 8th week ministries....watch out for her. She doesn't call herself an Apostle or Prophetess. Here's her profile:

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=197271104

  • To Anyone who is Considering being part of 2nd 8th week ministries,

    I've been thinking...Paul was a true apostle of Christ. JoAnne claims to be an Apostle too. Who or what does she make much of? Does she make much of Christ as her one and only consuming passion, as Paul did? Does she point to Christ and strive to magnify Him in all that she does? Or does she strive to magnify her ministry, the second 8th week university teaching, and her own work? Does she magnify herself and how great she is, or how great Christ is?

    I see in all her posts, bulletins, website, and lectures that she is trying to magnify herself and not Christ.

  • Debi: Takin it to the Streets! wrote:
    Praise the Lord Sister!! I'm so glad that there are Christians who do their research before jumping into such cults...
    You are appreciated and Loved!!
    Debi



    Debi,

    I think this is something that is very important for all believers in Jesus....I think the instance of cults in the world is only going to increase until Jesus returns. It is my opinion that one big cult is going to be the one world religion of the Anti-Christ.

    This is why I stress aplogetics so much....not only has God laid it on my heart and put me in situations where I have had to defend orthodox, evangelical Christian beliefs, but it also helps me grow in my own faith.

    Way too many Christians don't really know what they believe, and they just go along with whatever....either that or they just accept anything that is spiritual, without checking the source.

    We live in a pluralistic society, and many who call themselves Christian are afraid to say that Jesus is the only way. They want to be inclusive and accepting of all.....but the only problem is that when you do that, you stand for nothing. It makes the cross of Christ meaningless, and it just becomes a social gospel.

    I was in class on Thursday this week, and people in my class were advocating for this social gospel, saying that everyone is saved...and that all Christianity is is just doing good works. They remove the power of the cross and they don't see the value of Jesus' blood. I was pretty upset in class, and I felt like crying. I didn't cry...but it was tough to hear most of the people, including the prof. agreeing, and this being at a seminary! (I'm not going to become a pastor or anything....I'm at the school because they offer a counseling degree, and it's supposedly a Christian school....though orthodox Christianity is frowned down upon by many who attend there.)


    Melissa

  • "Apostle" JoAnne Cremer has a new music profile to spread her theology and teachings. :(

    Here it is.
    http://www.myspace.com/apostlejoannecremer

    I also have just been informed by Lucia that she is visiting Lucia's page and is adding Lucia's friends...and trying to get them to join her cult. She knows that I oppose her teachings. Lucia has made it known that she opposes JoAnne's teachings....she may be doing the same to my friends. (Lucia, I hope you don't mind my sharing that...if you do, let me know, and I'll repost this without your name.) Most people in this group know both of us. So far only my friends have joined, and it's safe for me to say that, I think.

    This is a spiritual battle.....keep all those who are on MySpace in your prayers....and please keep my friend Guy in your prayers. He has been deceived by her false teachings. Most of you guys know Guy.

  • Lucia posted this:
    Melissa
    You can use my name because this is the truth
    I oppose Joanne Cremer's false gospel and lies
    when she dares mention Moses she is not worthy!

    Christians and Jews beware Joanne claims she will spread her
    fake teachings to all the world and I am especially concerned
    about her opening a church in Israel - the Holy Land does not
    need her pollution - the Promised Land has clean fresh air -
    pray for the protection of Israel and the Jewish people
    against this spirit of antichrist - Amen!

    http://myspace.com/apostlejoanne
    http://myspace.com/apostlejoannecremer

    Read her pages for yourselves and ask God for discernment
    and please warn your friends about these untruths on myspace
    God bless everyone - Yeshua is the Rock on which we stand - Lucia.

    http://conqueringlove.com
    lucifer is the liar who believes in luck

  • It is possible that a cult like hers will be the faith that the Anti-Christ holds to....that and combine it with New Age and occult stuff....wait that is what 2nd 8th week ministries is....

    it's the perfect religion for the Anti-Christ

  • another friend of mine from MySpace posted this:
    We are at the time when the final time is upon us, when the false prophits raise up with their "New Age" and such don't be to fooled on what is and what iss to come my friends.Nothing to worry about as long as we keep our faith in our lord and not be lead astray.Times when one has free should really study his word and keep his word in our hearts.

  • Lucia posted this:

    Shalom I have decided to post Joanne Cremer's letter to me from Sept. 17/07

    Dear Lucia

    Thank you sister for your communication. I am sorry if it takes me time to get back to you but I have a full time job and I am a mother and wife. I do not spend a lot of time on myspace as I have real responsibilities as an apostle and assistant professor with the Distance Learning University we have. As I mentioned I am currently carrying over 35 pastors as my own students and assisting them with the education and their mentorship requires all of my attention and focus. Across the globe we have thousands of others working with us and I am an executive officer for the Non-profit organization and this also is another hat I wear as Chief Administrative Officer which requires many hours of conferencing, collaborating and such to build these churches and here in America and in other countries and to provide and disburse resrouces to them for their needs. We provide all our education, counseling, training and everything at no charge, and I take no income or any support, so my time must be appropriated very wisely so that I can be effective in these capacities and still be a mother and wife and a servant of God in my own private time of study and prayer each day.

    Not everyone is going to agree with what Second 8th Week University is accomplishing. But we know that we are doing the work of the Lord to restore the gospel in its wholeness so that Christians can come and enjoy the fullness, rest, peace, joy and spiritual transformation Jesus promised. Believers have been so used to a gospel that exploits them and offers them gimmicks for “activating” their faith to get God to move on their behalf and change their circumstances. I was under that gospel for 16 years and it was not satisfying to my soul. I have received so many letters from pastors and belivers around the world that are now experiencing the same glorious liberty I experienced when I came to the Univeristy and received my New Covneant education. In fact just last night a pastor from North Carolina called me here at home and for 90 minutes he poured his heart out in tears and thanksgiving for the truth we are delivering him and how much it has liberated his heart. He is now giving this to his congregation and they are all amazed at the simplicity of Christ. He said he read them some simple prophecies that I had sent to him in his quiz feedback and the whole congregation said they experienced a strong presence of God that brought peace to their mind while he was reading them. That’s the power of God’s grace. It ministers His peace and equity to the soul. He then told me how he shared with his congregation that the experience they felt did not come from dancing, singingin, shouting, or loud preaching… just the simple reading of prophecies that confirmed Jesus Christ and His plan of redemption. He said they again expressed their amazement at how simple the yoke of Christ is. He said that he was so joyful to be coming out the past deception he had been taught about Christ and how to serve God.. he wanted so badly to get this knowledge out to others and is going to use his radio station program to do so.

    You see… this is just one of so many, many testimonies that come in to me all the time. And I am just one apostle among many. They receive wonderful testimonies too from their students and those they are working with who are pastors with congregations they are transitioning. This is an international work that is already in over 25 countries now. God is truly pouring out His grace and mercy upon those who have hungered for righteousness.

    My dear sister.. please understand that I have nearly 4, 000 people on my friend list. I receive hundreds of letters a day from myspace friends. I have clearly outlined my networking goals on my profile page and unfortunately I must screen who I write to. I am not on myspace to make friends. I am on myspace to “Network” and “Evangelize”. Many people come to my page and post very nice things to me and sometimes it brings tears to my eyes of their thoughtfulness. I so badly want to return and go to their page and do the same, but I would be very negligent of my duties to my students, my family and God if I spent all the time required to reciprocate to each of them a picture and comment. A few times a month I can do a few, but I can never do all… that’s impossible. Some people might think I am aloof or too business like by that… but that is just their false perception, and not the truth. I am always petitioning God in my daily prayers for those on my friendlist, that His mercy would be new to them each day, that He would comfort them in their time of various need, and that His grace would be generous for them as well. This is a righteous prayer and I know God hears it and grants the answers according to His will.

    There are times when women write to me and ask me for a “word from God” about their life because they think an apostle can read minds or something like that. There are times when men write me and want me to read their journals, their posts, their blogs, their this and that… or want to engage me in conversation. Do you think I have time for all that? Of course not. People want to try to pull me in to debates… they want me to confirm their imaginations, they want me to confirm their doctrines and their positions on human matters. I will not do that. That is not what my apostleship is for and it saddens me that people do not understand that yet and think something about me that is far, far from the truth.

    Apostles are not here to intrude into peoples’ personal lives. Unfortunately, the false ministers have conditioned the people to think that is what ministry is….to tell you how to “line up your life” with the “word.” There is so much false doctrine being promoted as the gospel sometimes it is very difficult to even post anywhere on the internet because ravenous wolves who project their aspiration and ambition as faith come in and destroy everything you do…just like they did to the first apostles. You can read that in Acts.

    There will always be these kind standing ready to devour and destroy. I am not concerned about them, nor will I involve myself in explaining why they do what they do. We are commanded to try the spirits. If you do not know how to try the spirits then you will be victimized by the spirit and fall prey to its inspiration that seeds fear, suspicion, and sedition. The false brethren work by spreading suspicion. The true apostles work by equipping you to experience God’s rest, joy, peace, righteousness and fullness.

    All the education we offer is free of charge. We do not hide anything, the lessons are all organized into a foundation series program and a leadership training program, through a Distance Learning University. We have an international staff of instructors and professors (the professors are all confirmed into their government callings). They all use our University databases to take care of their students’ education just like any other university would. The students progress through the lessons at their own pace and they get quality one on one feedback with their instructor. It is very gratifying work to provide the truth to those who want to set aside their ambitions with the gospel of Christ and learn how to serve Him in humility and righteousness.

    If you want to see how some of the students are expressing their faith during and after their training I think you should spend some time at our new University Student Board. It is open to the public for all to read. The students post there their reflections of Christ, and they steward the grace of God liberally for the nourishment of each other. The apostles, prophets, teachers, pastors and evangelists also post there teachings concerning the Mystery of Christ. The posts are the richest in grace you will ever, ever read. I highly recommend you visit and read there to give you a perspective that is based in truth, in fact and is straight from the horses’ mouth.

    Remember, an apostle is not called to resolve conflicts and confirm man’s aspirations and man’s interpretations. We are called to confirm Jesus Christ and set His one foundation of truth in the heart of believers. This foundation of truth is critical if a believer is to exercise their faith according to the covenant terms God established in Jesus Christ. We cannot serve God with what is instinctual to us, we must serve Him cognitively by the Record and Witness of Christ. The record is the foundation of truth and that must come from the apostles’ office by instruction to each believer. This is the design Jesus set in His Headship. Some want to be independent of the Headship of Christ; they are free to so. I am here for those who want to learn how to function in the New Covenant priesthood and experience the richness of the Father’s love, the mediatorial work of Christ and the regenerative work of the Spirit in their souls.

    Leadership all over the world are openly admitting there is a failure in the Church and that Christians are not experiencing satisfaction in their walk with God. That is an established fact and not an assumption. Many Christian magazines, research groups and authors are confessing this weekly. I am committed to fulfilling my calling as an apostle to bring the remedy to those who suffer spiritually and want the fullness of Christ. This is the work of the ministry and I take it very seriously. People’s souls are at stake and the Church needs apostles now, men and women who NOT exploit others nor take unto themselves and fatten their coffers, but rather will give the children the true bread of Christ, to raise them up to be seasoned fathers in the Faith who will do the same for others.

    This letter took me an hour to write to you. If I answered every question and email and post and comment to my page do you think I would have a life? My own daughter came up to me while writing to you and asked me to take a break and play with her. My students must come first above those who are not my students.

    Thank you again sis for the opportunity to share Christ with you. May the Lord richly abound to you with His grace.

    www.s8wstudentresources.com

    Very respectfully yours,
    Apostle JoAnne Cremer

  • Lucia,
    Could you please tell everyone on here the specific question(s) you wanted her to address?

    Also, would you mind posting the response you received from the other Christian friend....I think that it would add clarity to the situation. This will put JoAnne Cremer's response in proper context.

    As your other friend said...this looks like it's a generic response.

  • Lucia posted this:
    Shalom Melissa

    I simply asked Joanne Cremer for her teaching on God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and the above letter was her response to my request so I showed it to a friend who is in Apostolic Ministry and his answer is below :


    Yes Beloved,
    I read her response to you
    with God given discernment
    and the way she kept stressing
    over and over how much time
    she devoted to write it
    when she had so many other
    “more important” things to do
    was totally over the top
    and indicates to me a canned response
    that she just pastes into the message box!

    Also the tone of her response
    was passive-aggressive and very insincere,
    again showing her very cold matter-of-fact manner
    and lack of true agape for the people of God!

    With God’s Agape,
    dd

  • In case anyone may be wondering why I'm labeling 2nd 8th week ministries as a cult, here are the reasons:

    Okay, by cult, in this instance.....since she claims to be representing Christianity, we have to look at it in terms of Christianity. Her teachings go against Christian orthodoxy, and therefore it is a cult.

    Things that make it a cult (in reference to Christianity) are as followers:
    1. she is teaching people to rely on angels and not God

    2. she is teaching another gospel....she is not only teaching people that they need to rely on angels, but that they need to learn from her or another "apostle" in 2nd 8th week ministries in order to correctly understand the Bible

    3. she teaches something called a 3rd covenant, which 2nd 8th week ministries says is this - when we die, we "go back into God and become gods...we create worlds" - a lot like mormonism

    4. 2nd 8th week ministries denies the Trinity (though they have posted the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed, and though they say they believe in it....their actual teachings deny it)

    5. she teaches that the Old Testament is evil and all the laws in it are evil

    6. she and her cult have redefined grace so it does not mean unmerited favor

    7. she teaches that Jesus' death on the cross has nothing to do with atonemnet or forgiveness for sinstherefore she denies the gospel message..the entire thing.

    8. she teaches occult stuff

    9. she and her cult portray Jesus in a different way, and therefore is teaching a different Jesus

    The above make 2nd 8th week ministries a heresy, and thus a cult.

    Not only that, but she and her 2nd 8th ministries teach that in order for a person to understand the Bible, they have to go along with her or an apostle, and that they need to take lessons from 2nd 8th week university in order to get the truth. She teaches that the church is apostate and has gotten everything wrong...and that her teaches correct it. She teaches people that they cannot listen to worship music or worship God with music....

    Since 2nd 8th week ministries teaches that people have to rely on them for true understanding, she is a cult in the other sense.....that only the leaders can give them information, and they are dependent on whatever their cult leader says.

  • basically, in terms of Christianity there are two things that must be upheld....anyone who denies them and claims to be Christian is heretical and a cult...according to Christian belief.

    These two things are:
    1.) the gospel message (please see my post on it)

    2.) the Trinity (please see my post on it)

    These are the two things that all cults deny. We consider groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons to be cults. We also consider Oneness Pentecostalism to be a cult.

  • wow...i couldnt make it all the way through the blog but...wow. her "teachings" were close enough, and were worded in a way, that i could see how someone could be lured into her message, but think about all of it as a whole, and her teachings are WAY out there. clearly their source isnt the bible.


    (The above quote is taking from another group)
    The following is my response:

    Yes....this is exactly the problem. That is the reason that I'm so extremely concerned about 2nd 8th week ministries, and that's the reason I'm trying to warn as many people as possible.

    I believe they are truly being deceptive, and are purposley trying to mislead people...lead them astray. The reason I say this is because they have quoted the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed on their official website. Their statement of faith appears to be in line with Christian orthodoxy. What put up a red flag for me is that their statement of faith was not very detailed. Most geunine Christian statements of faith go into extensive detail about each point. Theirs is just one sentence about each point....to try to make it look like their teachings line up with true Christianity.

    If you look at JoAnne Cremer's MySpace page, she kind of does the same thing.....she is trying to word things in terms of Christian orthodoxy to lure people.

    Once a person examines their teachings, it is extremely evident that they reject the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed and all that Christian orthodoxy is.....but you've got to really examine their teachings. On the surface they appear to be spreading Christianity....which is why this is so dangerous for new Christians or those who want to learn about Christianity.

    If you examine the strategy they are using, it's Satan's stragey...and I'm not kidding. Satan does the exact same thing....he takes a little bit of truth, then completely twists it. If people aren't on the guard, they can be sucked into his lies.

    I'm pretty good at picking up on false teachings....and this stuff is really dangerous.

  • A great concern I have with this group is how easily deceptive the "apostles" are being. They are teaching all this stuff in the name of Christianity, and they are doing it under the pretenses of loving Jesus.

    It is all a set up....and so many people on MySpace are being sucked into her teachings.

    If you look at her profile, she has many Christians and pastors and on her friend list. She is doing this to try to look legitimate.

    One thing I really cannot stand is people spreading false stuff in the name of Jesus Christ. :(

  • Marilyn posted this:
    There is going to be an increase in this type of false teaching as time goes on so Christians need to be very alert.

    People need to learn how cults operate and be very sensitive to the Holy Spirit or they will be carried away. Watch out for people that love titles before their name .
    Also I am not saying God can't talk through visions or dreams but the spirit behind every word and dream and teaching better be tested. "Test the spirits" says God.

  • Agreed.

    Jesus warned that there would be an increase in false teachers...even people claiming to be Him. The whole NT warns agaisnt an incresaed number of deceiving teachings in the end times.

    The sad part is that many mainline churches (not all) are not preaching the gospel any more, for fear of offending people. This was the case in the church I grew up in. They covered up the cross and forbid the pastor to mention sin, grace, the cross, or salvation. People at my church willingly went along with it.

    There is also an increased amount of liberal theology in mainline churches. I attend a seminary. I'm not going here to be a pastor, but to go into counseling. They offer a counseling degree program. Many of the people who attend my school want to be pastors. I got a 30 percent on a paper I wrote for my NT class. The paper was about discipleship in John....and I talked about having a personal relationship with God. My professor failed me on it because, in his opinion, John meant something else when he talked about "knowing God." He said that was the main problem with my paper....that I didn't understand John's world. He also denied that the Bible taught the Trinity. He thinks the Holy Spirit is just a Greek mind concept.

    I have a friend that goes to my school too, with the same theology as me. My professor failed her completely. She wrote about how Jesus died for our sins. He told her that was wrong, and so he failed her.

    He told us both that neither of us had any understanding of the New Testament. I ended up with a C- for the course. He said I had major problems interpreting the New Testament and limited knowledge of it.

    In one of my classes last year there was a debate about Jesus' death. At least 5 or 6 people were claiming that it would have been better if Jesus had died in His bed as an old man, and that He was "too young when He died...there was so much more we could have learned from Him." They also tried claiming that Christianity would have been no different if Jesus hadn't died on the cross, and they denied His bodily resurrection....so they thought Christianity would still exist if Jesus hadn't died and risen from the dead. These were pastors in training who were saying this!!!

    There may come a time when true believers will have to say that they are no longer Christian, but that they are followers of Jesus Christ.

    New Age beliefs and occult practices are sneaking into churches very slowly. There are people in my classes and in the church I grew up in who believe in reincarnation. At my school the bishop here (whom I have no respect for as a Christian leader) was suggesting that we go see a Spiritual Director. The Spiritual Director who spoke was into shaminism and New Age junk. Many professors and students on campus go see this lady and her partner (who is a New Ager.) The Professors actually encourage it. During orientation this lady tried to take is through a guided imagery exercise. I refused to participate.

    A lot of Christians think nothing of yoga....but yoga is dangerous stuff too. It invovles Eastern religious practices that are demonic.

    A big problem today is that a lot of people think that just because something is spiritual it's good. They think that an "angel of light" is good. Many people even deny Satan's existence. This is probably the biggest deception, and is the cause of many people getting trapped into false teachings.

    I've noticed something....most cult leaders seem to claim that an angel or something from the spiritual realm taught them their teachings. They think oh...angel, good....this is superior knowledge, and it must be true because it comes from an angel." The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to get their information from "angels of light." JoAnne Cremer teaches people to rely on angels. Many New Agers get stuff from beings in the spiritual realm. Jospeh Smith claimed to receive the Mormon teachings from angels. It's happened with almost every cult that I can think of.

    These beings they are getting their information from must be demons. Since this is the case, the following Biblical passage applies very well here:
    1 Timothy 4:1-2
    1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, (NASB)

    I like the way the NIV says it:
    1TI 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

  • Lucia wrote:
    I saw that too, it was like an inconvience (sp?) to write to someone who asked a simple question. If she has a website, she should have something like the teaching of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit on the site and given you the link. She seemed to want to make it that you read what she has and don't ask questions, oooo, she would hate me then..lol

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