World needs a "supernatural punisher"

 
    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 8 Sep 2009, 20:25

    World needs a "supernatural punisher"

    I'm just re-directing this topic from the news forum...

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/world-needs-a-supernatural-punisher-1880633.html

    THE world may have to turn to God to save itself from climate change, claims one of Britain's most eminent scientists.

    Lord May, the president of the British Association of Science, said religion may have helped protect human society from itself in the past and may be needed again.

    Speaking on the eve of the association's annual conference, the committed atheist said he was worried that the world was on a "calamitous trajectory", brought on by its failure to co-ordinate measures against global warming.

    He said that no country was prepared to take the lead and a "punisher" was needed to make sure the rules were not broken.

    The former government chief scientific adviser said in the past that the "punisher" was God and that it might be time for religion to fill the gap again. "Maybe religion is needed," said Lord May, who was brought up a Scottish Presbyterian but went through an "inverse epiphany" aged 11.

    "A supernatural punisher may be part of the solution."

    He said in the past a belief in a god, or gods, that punish the unrighteous may have been part of the mechanism of evolution that maintains co-operation in a dog-eat-dog world.

    "Given that punishment is a useful mechanism, think how effective it would be if you invested that power not in an individual, but in an all-seeing, all-powerful deity that controls the world," he said. (©Daily Telegraph, London)

    - Richard Alleyne in London


    Personally if someone were to say to me "contribute to the prevention of global warming or a flying bearded giant will materialize and bum you to death" it's only going to make retreat further in unreasonable and brainlesly dogmatic nerd rage 'cleverly' disguised as atheism :p Before you know it 50% of the worlds population will become overnight Burzum fans.

  • Well this is an interesting quote. I suspect Lord May knows this can only remain a pipe dream, being that well read in science. There's an element of truth in his statements.

    Humanity doesn't bide well with leaders who don't reward and/or punish them for their actions. In a way people are just like puppies. At this moment the puppy has grown into an adult dog, destroying furniture wherever he goes. Sorry pup, dad's gotta go to work, can't teach you how to behave right now. Maybe tomorrow. Vote for me.

    Neo-liberal capitalism is what you get from leaving the people to fend for themselves. Without a visionary, some kind of leader, the rich automatically become the powerful. In this economical system we live in, you're rewarded for selfishness. Global warming can be contributed to the selfish acts of the neo-liberal capitalist pigs who don't seem to care but to make their stock skyrocket. And this comes from a Satanist, mind you. Even I know where to stop being self serving.

    But on the other hand, people only follow a leader's teachings when they are in need of guidance. When they're poor, sick and helpless. Too bad it's already too late when we get that far.

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  • Aren't a lot of rich, greedy selfish people Christians? The Bush's and their cronies spring to mind. They certainly don't care about the environment, or destroying 'God's good earth'. I'm not saying all capitalists are (or claim to be) Christian. It's just a great many conglomerations are run by rich, white Americans and they often do believe they are Christians.

    They clearly think they are above the judgement of their supernatural punisher. The wrath of their god is for homosexuals, not the money leaders and such. Oh the joy of cherry picking and quote digging to damn others and justify your own sins.

    "Now and then it's good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and just be happy."
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  • Well, some Christians think it's justified destroying this planet because that will speed up the coming of the Judgement Day XD

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 8 Sep 2009, 22:10
    LeaTelamon said:
    Well, some Christians think it's justified destroying this planet because that will speed up the coming of the Judgement Day XD


    Also, by believing in Judeo-Christian doctrines, they adopt the belief that the earth "belongs" to them, as Genesis says. I've always felt this is the deepest root of the selfishness inherent to Jewish and Christian political stance. Since by their belief the earth is their property, and mandated by "god", they don't see anything morally wrong with over exploiting natural resources and polluting the environment. It's simply part of god's will for them to do so with reckless abandon.

    Plus we have to keep in mind that to a Jew the central focal point of lifestyle is only to obey the rules of the religion, and for Christians its all about going to heaven as opposed to hell. The morality involved in environmental protection is a mute point to someone who believes following a set of rules will entitle them to spend eternity in Never Never Land.

  • The morality involved in environmental protection is a mute point to someone who believes following a set of rules will entitle them to spend eternity in Never Never Land.

    Especially when there's a large portion of that dogma that states "the lord will return and make everything perfect again! So its OK to drive SUV's and litter! Jesus will make the world clean on his return... which could be tomorrow!"

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

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    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 9 Sep 2009, 00:49
    He's got a butt load of work in store for him.

  • I think I have been leaning towards agreement with the general idea that humans need to be stupid and religious to survive for any period of time longer than 10,000 years from now. Clarke wrote something to the effect that for humanity to establish civilization beyond earth, we will have to be like "stowaway rats". I wish I could remember where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it was Arthur Clarke. Does anyone know?

    Anyway, I think a "likely" scenario in which humans can actually survive in space would consist of something like that - where humans are "dumbed down" in comparison to modern humans and are therefore, religious. They would obey the command of the ship's captain, Captain Seagull who was later demoted due to his shenannigans only to be replaced by the gruff, wayward space traveler, Captain K'nuckles. Somehow, as if from a Holloywood movie, the computers became sentient and murdered the Captain for his boots and destroyed the ship and humanity.




    my story are terrible. :(

    RageofAnath said:
    The morality involved in environmental protection is a mute point to someone who believes following a set of rules will entitle them to spend eternity in Never Never Land.

    Especially when there's a large portion of that dogma that states "the lord will return and make everything perfect again! So its OK to drive SUV's and litter! Jesus will make the world clean on his return... which could be tomorrow!"


    TruDat1

    however, Green Bible proponents are pretty humorous.

    <3
  • I wonder where Lord May got this idea. I have this nagging feeling that he said this due to mixing up cause and correlation: religious attendance declined over the last century, whereas technology rose exponentially.

    Like GnosticSoldier and Anath mentioned, this is also strange when you consider the fact that the according to Abrahamic teachings, the earth is our own, "god-given", from which we can reasonably expect a more selfish behaviour than less. God may be a punisher in the sky, but he never demanded that "thou shalt not pollute the earth".

    The "green religion" that immediately comes to mind is of course buddhism, and buddhism doesn't even have a punisher in the sky. I think it is rather those religions that propose a oneness with all life, with the planet, or even with the whole universe. Taking care of the planet is then equivalent with taking care of yourself; in such cases selfishness may be even beneficial to the earth's climate.

    I know it sounds like newspeak, but it makes some sort of sense. Somewhere.

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
  • And then Buddhism isn't as green as say, Shinto :P

    But I find the idea interesting though, why Asian religions in and belief systems for the matter, in general support such a view that taking care of oneself --> taking care of nature.

    Here it's like, taking care of oneself ---> hai guis lez cvut down rain forssts! Iz nneedsz more comfoprtable furtinature

    Except that it also says in the bible that we should not hoard material possessions <.<

  • Except that it also says in the bible that we should not hoard material possessions <.<Yes, it was even included by Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti in the list of seven new deadly sins. "Accumulating excessive wealth".


    Vatican: No excessive accumulation of wealth. These are holy people.

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
  • It wasn't accumulated as much as inherited

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