Proud NOT to be a True Metalhead » Discussions

Goth Culture vs. Metal Culture

 
    • Trash73 said...
    • User
    • 22 Jun 2011, 19:00

    Goth Culture vs. Metal Culture

    The first ever use for the term Goth was 1000 CE, they were like Vikings who lived in Germany and were the opposite of modern day Goths as they had a reputation for violence and cruelty. Asides from literature, the date of gothic (adjective, not to be confused with the noun Goth) is around 1979 with Bauhaus and the song "Bela Lugosi's Dead."

    I'm not sure when the term Metalhead came about, but probably not long after Black Sabbath, although the term "Heavy metal Thunder" was used in the lyrics to Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild." Watching Sam Dunn's "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey" you are greeted to the typical 80s Metalhead (although no different from today), denim-vested, loud, full of themselves, drinking alcohol in parking lots. The 80s when these louts started making a name for themselves, with Paul Baloff leading his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists. Many fans say Metal is freedom, yet don't free themselves up from one style of music.

    In comparison, Goths are mellow and not supportive of this type of violence. They are also against elitism, as many Goths support non-gothic music such as Classical and Industrial. You do not need to have an interest in vampires or a morbid fascination with death to be a Goth. " As the Shroudettes, we were too confined to the whole Vampire Lestat imagery and expanded our horizons to incorporparate some of our other influences, such as Gothic and Victorian literature, the symbolism of the alchemical arts, and mysticism of the medieval Christian heresies. As a whole, we wanted to have a more mystical and medieval outlook. This took us down a more serious path to our music and performing -- one that's more concerned with content than image. Furthermore, there are bands that do not call themselves gothic when the common conception is that they are - Sisters of Mercy and Dead Can Dance. There are standards aren't as strict for being a Goth, require are a Gothic personality - an interest in the finer and deeper aspects of life, and a little bit of a taste in gothic music - The Cure, Darkwave, Ethereal and so on.

    Regarding The Shroud quote, image in appearance or lyrics, is very important aesthetic to being a Goth, and it's not a pose, a ploy or gimmick as some Metal bands are. Now, onto clothing Metalheads state "they want their music to be strong" (quote Global Metal) to differ themselves from the pop listening masses. However, their clothing totally contradicts this. In my opinion, casually dressing in band T-shirts and jeans / cameo trousers with the odd patch filled denim-vest is not strong or tasteful. Goth is a dark aesthetic based music subculture, and so more attention is put into the dark and beautiful appearance and lyrics.

    I'm now going to quote from Burzum on Metal-culture. "I think the metal culture is an extremely primitive, unintelligent and pointless subculture, like all rock'n'roll subcultures are. I don't understand what the point with this metal subculture is. Smoking pot or getting drunk, sleeping around and giving each other venereal diseases, partying all the time, going to concerts to meet other vacuum-heads, and so forth. What's the point? Even bush-n___ can be more sensible and constructive, and deeper than that.The true attraction people have to this particular subculture is probably something else, like contempt for the modern world, fascination for death and the gothic, romanticism and even Pagan values, but it all becomes so very wrong when mixed with traditional rock'n'roll or heavy metal culture.

    I agree with Varg, Gothic and romanticism (which is very close to gothic, in literature especially) subculture is what Metal subculture should about, an interest in the fine arts and not the type of temporary gratification that they engage in. There is nothing wrong with it, and I certainly don't condemn it but I do not go to Metal festivals to get drunk and party, I go for the music. Wacken is one of the biggest music festivals in Europe, around 100,000 attendees, and what attracts many of them is the party atmosphere.

    I wanted to give a broad comparison of the two subcultures without going into much detail, I will give a general overview of Goth music later, as this much understood (not Marilyn Manson.) Goths are friendlier, less violent, more open and accepting to tastes and borrows the best parts of Metal culture (interest in the dark arts) and merges into a gathering of people. Metal subculture is full of outsiders, as Goth subculture is, but the brotherhood attitude does not just apply to Manowar lyrics, everyone is welcome as one big family, there is no split between the True and False.


    [as usual, just a first draft, open for editing.]

  • 1 - "Paul Baloff leading his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists."

    Baloff was a fan of W.A.S.P. Your mistaking his stage persona for what he was really like.

    2 - "They are also against elitism, as many Goths support non-gothic music such as Classical and Industrial."

    So are most real metalheads. The genres sonic diversity is a testament to that. The only "elitists" I've met at metal shows have been dumb fucking teenagers who think bashing Slipknot makes them look more metal and not like posers.

    3 - "image in appearance or lyrics, is very important aesthetic to being a Goth, and it's not a pose, a ploy or gimmick as some Metal bands are."

    Bullshit. Its a much a gimmick for some goth bands as it is for some metal bands.

    4 - "Now, onto clothing Metalheads state "they want their music to be strong"

    That line was in reference to the MUSIC, not the cloths.

    5 - "In my opinion, casually dressing in band T-shirts and jeans / cameo trousers with the odd patch filled denim-vest is not strong or tasteful."

    Wearing band shirts and patch filled vests is about showing support for the music, not looking "tough" or "tasteful."

    6 - "Metal subculture is full of outsiders, as Goth subculture is, but the brotherhood attitude does not just apply to Manowar lyrics, everyone is welcome as one big family, there is no split between the True and False."

    I'll just quote someone who actually understands metal culture in response to this line of bullshit.

    “I went to see Iron Maiden the other night, and I actually watched the show from a box and we were laughing as we walked — it was me and my two best friends… as we were walking into the box, we had a bunch of drinks, we were all going, ‘This is so not metal, to be in a box.’ [laughs] So we watched most of the show from the box and then we were gonna go meet the band. And we went down during ‘The Number Of The Beast’. And when we got there, I grabbed Lady Starlight and I said, ‘Let’s go,’ and we just booked it into the centre of the crowd.”

    “We were dancing and singing and everyone was just so into it,” Gaga continues. “And it was one of the first times I’ve been able to just be at a rock concert in a long time. People did recognize me, but it was so kind and warm and awesome. I mean, Iron Maiden is all about, ‘We don’t care who our fans are. We love everybody.’ ”

    “I guess what I’m trying to say is the devotion of the fans moving in unison, pumping their fists, watching the show, when I see that, I see the paradigm for my future and the relationship I want to have with my fans. Iron Maiden’s never had a hit song, and they tour stadiums around the world, and their fans live, breathe and die for Maiden, and that is my dream. That is my dream.”

    “And not only that, but when we got into the crowd, there was no pretension. I’m a pop singer — I didn’t know what it would be like in a crowd of a Maiden fans; everybody was hugging me, high-fiving, fistpumps in the air… ‘Oh, it’s so cool you’re at Maiden.’ Jumping and dancing…I mean, it was like absolute no judgment, no prejudice, freedom and love for music. It doesn’t matter who you are; you don’t need to know anything about music to love it. And it was just so… It was just awesome… Maiden changed my life.”

    - Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta a.k.a. Lady Gaga.

    • 3dd656 said...
    • User
    • 22 Jun 2011, 20:56
    I'm not sure, but did he jsut try to say that the visio-Goths and other ancient gothic cultures are at all similar to the modern day's goth sub-culture?

  • Wow...pwned by Lady Gaga. :D Btw, as of metalheads wearing band t-shirts and jeans..besides showing support to the music as Ritual_Suicide mentioned, it's also comfortable and practical. Wearing clothes like that let you feel free during the show. If you want to headbang or mosh or just sit on the ground, whatever. No worries about losing or damaging something. Anyway...why there's always have to be something vs. something? Or is there some kind of secret war goin' on between metalheads and goths that i'm not aware of?

    • 3dd656 said...
    • User
    • 22 Jun 2011, 22:44
    No, I'm pretty sure it's because trash is a pretentious faggot that's running low on ideas.

  • This is all completely wrong. Goth culture wasn't remotely prominent in music til 1980's and goths had nothing to do with metal. In fact it can be said they still don't. Even today you'll find most goths listen to Depeche Mode, The Cure, Joy Division and The Velvet Underground. There is "goth metal" but it's a relatively small genre and scene. I don't know why you are comparing the two, because it's like comparing apples and washing machines.

  • I use Wikipedia too.

    • Trash73 said...
    • User
    • 25 Jun 2011, 10:13
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    1 - "Paul Baloff leading his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists."

    Baloff was a fan of W.A.S.P. Your mistaking his stage persona for what he was really like.


    You're saying he's not an elitist because he listened to a Heavy Metal band who dressed as women? Yet he picked on Motley Crue and all the other Glam bands, that makes him a hypocrite.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    2 - "They are also against elitism, as many Goths support non-gothic music such as Classical and Industrial."

    So are most real metalheads. The genres sonic diversity is a testament to that. The only "elitists" I've met at metal shows have been dumb fucking teenagers who think bashing Slipknot makes them look more metal and not like posers.


    Absolutely not. Do you even look at charts of Metalheads? Usually about 3-4 non-metal bands in their whole charts, let alone their top 50. They have no clue about music history beyond Metal, and no clue of proper rock 'n' roll, R'n'B, Soul & Blues. What about the obscure genres, such as Qawwali, No wave and Rai? They have the 'it must be bad, because I've never listened to it' attitude.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    3 - "image in appearance or lyrics, is very important aesthetic to being a Goth, and it's not a pose, a ploy or gimmick as some Metal bands are."

    Bullshit. Its a much a gimmick for some goth bands as it is for some metal bands.


    Maybe so, but the extremity of corpse paint has long worn off. Goth image is timeless, because it's aesthetic, unlike Metal which is the opposite.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    4 - "Now, onto clothing Metalheads state "they want their music to be strong"

    That line was in reference to the MUSIC, not the cloths.


    True, but most bands don't even bother working out anymore, and the fan's attire usually contradicts strong. It's masculine music, one of the reasons glam Metal was hated so much, yet they have long hair as females would do. Being strong means you must separate yourself from the weak in appearance (as Goths do), Metalheads dress far too casually.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    5 - "In my opinion, casually dressing in band T-shirts and jeans / cameo trousers with the odd patch filled denim-vest is not strong or tasteful."

    Wearing band shirts and patch filled vests is about showing support for the music, not looking "tough" or "tasteful."


    It's about looking super extra cool in front of all your Metal buddies.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    6 - "Metal subculture is full of outsiders, as Goth subculture is, but the brotherhood attitude does not just apply to Manowar lyrics, everyone is welcome as one big family, there is no split between the True and False."

    I'll just quote someone who actually understands metal culture in response to this line of bullshit.

    - Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta a.k.a. Lady Gaga.


    Metal is not about having fun and being accepted, if anything it's the opposite. Being rejected - Glam Metal, Nu-Metal, Metalcore, Deathcore, Cradle of Filth (being bottled off stage at festivals) is all forbidden. Having fun is a basic human emotion, and if that makes it a subculture, then the word has been dumbed down an awful lot. If that is true, it's no different than Rave subculture, and it is a lot shallower than Goth subculture - even more than I realized.

    • 3dd656 said...
    • User
    • 25 Jun 2011, 18:43
    OH NO! TRASH THINKS HE'S RIGHT! NOBODY ARGUE WITH HIM! HE THINKS HE'S RIGHT! THINKS

    Wow, you sure do sounds like a woman Trash.

    • googoie said...
    • User
    • 27 Jun 2011, 07:54
    Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    5 - "In my opinion, casually dressing in band T-shirts and jeans / cameo trousers with the odd patch filled denim-vest is not strong or tasteful."

    Wearing band shirts and patch filled vests is about showing support for the music, not looking "tough" or "tasteful."


    It's about looking super extra cool in front of all your Metal buddies.


    I met a pretty cool guy at a Blind Guardian concert. Months later, I found him at a Symphony X show wearing the shirt from the Blind Guardian show.

    Now, I know I must not be the only one who dresses metal for the sake of identification from like-minded peers. I make friends that way.

    - - - - -

    Moving away from that specific point...

    It seems to me you are trying to prove that gothic culture is superior to metal culture.
    Being one who considers himself a part of both, I must say, they are not all that different.

    Have you ever been to a metal show? A small venue show, I mean, one with only a hundred or so guests.

    Alongside anime conventions, I feel more at home at metal shows than almost anywhere else. I think of the metal community like a brotherhood.

    You speak of exclusion and hate for other genres. I hear much of this on the internet, but never have I heard this from someone I know to be a "true metalhead". You know what? I'm not sure I even like that term. It can be defined so many different ways. I think you see "true metalheads" as the small exclusive crowd that just gets drunk while bashing posers. Well, you know what? In a sense, I think that makes them posers.

    I had a great time talking to a Cradle of Filth shirt-wearing friend I made at a show once about KMFDM. No one talked crap about anything. I even invited my preppy metalcore-listener friend to accompany me to that show. No one shut him out.

    I think the closest thing I've done to what you have described here is argue that nu-metal/metalcore/whatever bands are not metal. Is that being closed-minded, to not let new genres in? I don't think so. There are many defining characteristics that keep me attached to metal culture, and I don't believe that these new genres embody enough, if any of them for inclusion under the "metal" label. Note that this in no way is me viewing the bands as inferior, but merely stating that whatever deviations from metal they house do not appeal to me, or at least the metal-me.

    All in all, your view of metal culture is just an unfortunate stereotype that characterizes just a sliver of a rich and diverse community.

    I understand that some parts of this may not actually address your points but attack the group in its entirety. I also understand that this whole post probably doesn't flow very well. I hereby apologize now, then; it is 4 AM, and I need sleep.

    You must be deaf or something... THIS IS DA BEST SONG EVER!
    • yourfag said...
    • User
    • 30 Jun 2011, 06:07

  • 50 cents a fag, so is kanye west
    Shooting hot sperm on each others cchhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssttttt!!!

    DEATH TO ALL BUT METAL!!!!!!!

  • Kanye West is bro, bro.

  • DEATH TO ALL BUT METAL!!!!

  • this is a funny group; a bunch of prejudice. talking like all metalheads are the same. they are a sub-culture because they all love one thing - metal.

    you also mentioned baloff and 'his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists.' just one little thing... thrashers wouldn't go underground if there wasn't for the glam scene, and most of the thrasher said that glam is okay.
    posers are the ones that don't have any respect for the music. all they see are the(ir) looks. sell-outs are the biggest disgrace. music is art. if you don't have your attitude, of course you'll end up listening to talentless bands (cores for whiny kids who don't appreciate life but yet they think they're soo damn strong cause they're a metalhead. cores are not heavy metal and that's discussed the most). as Bello said, I'd rather have a good riff than my cock sucked. (actually referring to the glam scene)

    we show our love towards GOOD music in many different ways. I don't know what you do for fun, I guess you dance like rihanna if you think that moshing is stupid? we are aware of other genres as well. personally, I like bach.

    also in the description you mentioned morbid angel. I guess you don't know that everyone thinks that new album SUCKS. SEE!?

    don't get me wrong, but with all this that you said, goth culture is nothing but a way to dress up. you also choose rather silly quotes (the ones from Dunn's films).. and also, burzum. I guess you forgot who varg is. a funny maniac. whole (sw) black metal scene is just a circus full of clowns.

    Edited by hallowedscream on 8 Jul 2011, 08:14
  • Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    1 - "Paul Baloff leading his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists."

    Baloff was a fan of W.A.S.P. Your mistaking his stage persona for what he was really like.


    You're saying he's not an elitist because he listened to a Heavy Metal band who dressed as women? Yet he picked on Motley Crue and all the other Glam bands, that makes him a hypocrite.


    Your still mistaking his stage persona for what he was really like. You also don't get why a band like Motley Crue (Girls! Girls! Girls! should have been called Money! Money! Money!) was despised.

    Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    2 - "They are also against elitism, as many Goths support non-gothic music such as Classical and Industrial."

    So are most real metalheads. The genres sonic diversity is a testament to that. The only "elitists" I've met at metal shows have been dumb fucking teenagers who think bashing Slipknot makes them look more metal and not like posers.


    Absolutely not. Do you even look at charts of Metalheads? Usually about 3-4 non-metal bands in their whole charts, let alone their top 50. They have no clue about music history beyond Metal, and no clue of proper rock 'n' roll, R'n'B, Soul & Blues. What about the obscure genres, such as Qawwali, No wave and Rai? They have the 'it must be bad, because I've never listened to it' attitude.


    Having narrow tastes =/= elitism

    Being a pretentious douche who thinks everyone else's tastes should be similar to yours in one way or another = elitism.

    Judging someone over what is in their charts is stupid. Not everyone scrobbles 100% of what they listen to. Hell, I'd have easily twice as many plays per-artist if I did that.

    The only people I have met who said things like "it must be bad, because I've never listened to it" are either radio only listeners or poseurs who think only well known and popular music can be any good, REAL hipsters or in one case a jazz/blues fan who basically said that all rock and metal is just bastardized blues pioneered by "redneck wiggers and Uncle Toms" that has no artistic merit.

    Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    3 - "image in appearance or lyrics, is very important aesthetic to being a Goth, and it's not a pose, a ploy or gimmick as some Metal bands are."

    Bullshit. Its a much a gimmick for some goth bands as it is for some metal bands.


    Maybe so, but the extremity of corpse paint has long worn off. Goth image is timeless, because it's aesthetic, unlike Metal which is the opposite.


    Musicians were using makeup and costumes to enhance their performances on stage and/or convey a desired image for decades before the invention of corpse paint. Ever heard of KISS, Alice Cooper or David Bowie? You can't praise one group of musicians for using costumes and makeup and then bash another just because your stupid enough to believe what the latter say in interviews.

    This look is about aesthetics and is preferable to corpse paint? ROFLMAO!!!



    Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    4 - "Now, onto clothing Metalheads state "they want their music to be strong"

    That line was in reference to the MUSIC, not the cloths.


    True, but most bands don't even bother working out anymore, and the fan's attire usually contradicts strong. It's masculine music, one of the reasons glam Metal was hated so much, yet they have long hair as females would do. Being strong means you must separate yourself from the weak in appearance (as Goths do), Metalheads dress far too casually.


    Most glam bands were hated because of their vapid material, not their looks. The bands that were though to be more about the music that the makeup like Skid Row were praised while the ones who seemed to just want to make money and fuck slutty groupies like Motley Crue were mocked.

    This DUDE looks strong to you? O_o



    Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    5 - "In my opinion, casually dressing in band T-shirts and jeans / cameo trousers with the odd patch filled denim-vest is not strong or tasteful."

    Wearing band shirts and patch filled vests is about showing support for the music, not looking "tough" or "tasteful."


    It's about looking super extra cool in front of all your Metal buddies.


    Not unless your a poseur. Are you a poseur Trash?

    Trash73 said:
    Ritual_Suicide said:
    6 - "Metal subculture is full of outsiders, as Goth subculture is, but the brotherhood attitude does not just apply to Manowar lyrics, everyone is welcome as one big family, there is no split between the True and False."

    I'll just quote someone who actually understands metal culture in response to this line of bullshit.

    - Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta a.k.a. Lady Gaga.


    Metal is not about having fun and being accepted, if anything it's the opposite. Being rejected - Glam Metal, Nu-Metal, Metalcore, Deathcore, Cradle of Filth (being bottled off stage at festivals) is all forbidden. Having fun is a basic human emotion, and if that makes it a subculture, then the word has been dumbed down an awful lot. If that is true, it's no different than Rave subculture, and it is a lot shallower than Goth subculture - even more than I realized.


    That whooshing noise is the point going right over your pretentious little fucking head, AGAIN. In any music culture, enjoying the music it is based around with other fans of said music is one of the key elements of being a part of the culture. Once you lose the music and the scene becomes nothing more than a fashion show, you lose the spark that inspired that scene and all that is left is a hollow shell with no meaning. I would gladly die to make sure that what your posturing, pretentious stupidity indicates has happened to goth culture never happens to metal's.

    Music > depressed fashion shows.

    Edited by Ritual_Suicide on 8 Jul 2011, 05:40
  • Music > depressed fashion shows. [2]

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 12 Aug 2011, 18:02
    Goth's try to be different they are patheic, Metalheads are different. Metalheads where casual clothes because they are comfortable, we wear band t-shirts because we love our bands, some of us have long hair because it looks cool to us, plus it is masculine as the vikings, native americans and a lot of ancient chinese men had long hair. Goth think they are really cool looking different yet at the end of the day they look like drag queens. and why should we care about music outside of metal?? we love metal, yes some of us love other genres as well, but most of us listen to metal as we prefer it to other genres which don't give the same feeling. The goth image is nothing of that of the old german tribes. and i can guarantee that more people listen to metal than goth, and that will always be the case so get over it. Goth will always be the genre everyone laughs at because it is a womens genre it always will be. Heavy metal shits on goth, Goths are depresses wankers who dress like girls and wonder why the world hates them!!

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 12 Aug 2011, 18:06
    Plus a lot of goth bands, clearly ripped off black metals vocals.

    • Trash73 said...
    • User
    • 12 Aug 2011, 20:05

    These quotes are old, but I neglected this thread as I thought it was dead....

    googoie said:

    Have you ever been to a metal show? A small venue show, I mean, one with only a hundred or so guests.


    Many. I went to see Aborted, and during one of the support bands, a guy dropped his pants to reveal his bare backside to me and his genitals to the band. God's honest truth.

    hallowedscream said:
    you also mentioned baloff and 'his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists.' just one little thing... thrashers wouldn't go underground if there wasn't for the glam scene, and most of the thrasher said that glam is okay.


    Wait, you're saying Thrash would be mainstream if it wasn't for Glam?
    I beg to differ about Thrashers approving of Glam.

    hallowedscream said:
    posers are the ones that don't have any respect for the music. all they see are their looks.


    No, that's hipsters, and they don't do it for an aesthetic sense, they are just dead trendy.

    hallowedscream said:
    we show our love towards GOOD music in many different ways. I don't know what you do for fun, I guess you dance like rihanna if you think that moshing is stupid?


    Dancing to pop music or like pop and R&B musicians is fun yes. I also mosh on occasion (most memorable is Destruction and Emmure), although for the most part it's people flailing their arms around like spastics. Hardcore Punk has much better mosh pits than any Metal. I watched "American Hardcore", and I can't remember the exact quote, but there was a description of a mosh pit that was the size of the entire arena, totally off the hook. Not even bands like DevilDriver could surpass that. Another superior sub-culture.

    hallowedscream said:
    also in the description you mentioned morbid angel. I guess you don't know that everyone thinks that new album SUCKS.


    Oh really? http://www.smnnews.com/2011/06/02/musicians-comment-on-new-morbid-angel-album-illud-divinum-insanus/

    hallowedscream said:
    goth culture is nothing but a way to dress up.


    That's only 50% of it. The music is as important.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    Your still mistaking his stage persona for what he was really like. You also don't get why a band like Motley Crue (Girls! Girls! Girls! should have been called Money! Money! Money!) was despised.


    But you stand up for them and call them Metal just for the sake of proving Metal has a few more artist sales? Money money money because girls is a topic common listeners can relate to rather than gore, gore, gore? "If I Die Tomorrow" is quite a good song musically and lyrically.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    This look is about aesthetics and is preferable to corpse paint?

    Well it's all about opinion, I actually think that is beautiful. Corpse paint looks nothing like a corpse.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    This DUDE looks strong to you? O_o

    Again a matter of opinion, but it's about dressing to appear strong in order to stand above the masses; and without making an effort and exaggerating fashion it's hard to feel like part of something dark and underground. It takes dedication to create a real Goth look and boldness to ignore the negative comments of your peers. Metal is only about masculinity, and no one will ever mock you for that.

    Ritual_Suicide said:
    That whooshing noise is the point going right over your pretentious little fucking head, AGAIN. In any music culture, enjoying the music it is based around with other fans of said music is one of the key elements of being a part of the culture. Once you lose the music and the scene becomes nothing more than a fashion show, you lose the spark that inspired that scene and all that is left is a hollow shell with no meaning. I would gladly die to make sure that what your posturing, pretentious stupidity indicates has happened to goth culture never happens to metal's.

    Music > depressed fashion shows.


    True, but would Goth have become what it is today without Siouxsie Sioux's make-up, Robert Smith's hair, mo-hawks (death hawks) and torn fishnets the fashion to accompany the music? I think not. It's the same with Heavy metal, except there is no separation from the true and the false fans. I have seen denim jackets with Nu-Metal patches on. The fashion separates true Goths from Marilyn Manson and Evanescence fans.

    Goths are morbid, not depressed.

  • metalnut80s said:
    Goth's try to be different they are patheic, Metalheads are different. Metalheads where casual clothes because they are comfortable, we wear band t-shirts because we love our bands, some of us have long hair because it looks cool to us, plus it is masculine as the vikings, native americans and a lot of ancient chinese men had long hair. Goth think they are really cool looking different yet at the end of the day they look like drag queens. and why should we care about music outside of metal?? we love metal, yes some of us love other genres as well, but most of us listen to metal as we prefer it to other genres which don't give the same feeling. The goth image is nothing of that of the old german tribes. and i can guarantee that more people listen to metal than goth, and that will always be the case so get over it. Goth will always be the genre everyone laughs at because it is a womens genre it always will be. Heavy metal shits on goth, Goths are depresses wankers who dress like girls and wonder why the world hates them!!


    This post makes my brain hurt.

    Plus a lot of goth bands, clearly ripped off black metals vocals.

    Which ones? I'd be interested in hearing some actual goth rock bands that use black metal vocals, sounds like a pretty interesting combination.

  • thrash wouldn't be what it is today. hate towards posers and glamers united them and fueled them up.
    metal was never supposed to be pretty. but glamers do have talent. I guess you go by the dave mustaine's flow. if you do, grow up.
    DEFINE A POSER.
    now I see why you don't get the metal scene. you don't share 'our' attitude towards having FUN.
    and I've already seen the comments by those silly bands who got well payed for the shit they've said.
    when looks take 50% of a 'sub-culture' everyone should ask themselves what the hell.

    • Trash73 said...
    • User
    • 23 Aug 2011, 16:42
    hallowedscream said:
    thrash wouldn't be what it is today. hate towards posers and glamers united them and fueled them up.
    metal was never supposed to be pretty. but glamers do have talent. I guess you go by the dave mustaine's flow. if you do, grow up.


    I see what you're saying, when I watched Get Thrashed a Violence member said "without Glam Metal, Thrash wouldn't have anything to attack."

    hallowedscream said:
    DEFINE A POSER.


    There is no such term as a poser if you enjoy the music. There are some who think they enjoy Black Metal but really don't as it's a heavily acquired taste, it's like Opera you have to train your ears for it. Gothic Metal is an acquired taste, there are probably some posers who think they like that also.You'll know if you like all the other genres of Metal, because it's obvious and mostly enjoyable on first listen. The only other example I can give is claiming to be something / a genre that you are not.

    hallowedscream said:
    now I see why you don't get the metal scene. you don't share 'our' attitude towards having FUN.


    This is from the genre that bought us depressive Black Metal and DeathGrind / Slam Death Metal.

    There is quite a split in the Metal scene really, you have Drowning the Light who say Black Metal shouldn't be played for fun. Then you have alcoholic hippies such as Darkthrone who hail all school metal and have party anthems (e.g. Hanging Out In Haiger) on their latest releases.

    As for DSBM and Slam DM, they are obviously not fun as they address the extremes of negativity and horror. Therefore, they shouldn't be listened to for fun as I think they're the most powerful genres in music (in terms of effect on the listener.) However, I would not say DSBM is emo (and we all know how emos are whiny and aren't a bundle of laughs.) The only band that comes even close is Happy Days, and I would say Metalcore bands such as Killswitch Engage are a lot more whiny than them. As for DeathGrind you have Impetigo, Mortician and Blood Freak who use old school Horror movie samples - Slam Death is also full of them - and are light-hearted reminder of the fact the music is fictional shock value. So neither genres promote fun at all, but doesn't strongly promote the opposite - suicide / mass murder or whiny teenagers / psychopaths - and can therefore be seen as art rather than fun.

    I hope you're not implying Goths don't have fun, there are numerous clubs and festivals such as the Wave Gotik Treffen and Whitby Gothic Weekend, which is the equivalent of Wacken / Bloodstock for Goths.You have to go out to enjoy it more, it's more sociable than Metal (in my opinion.) The reason I don't think Metal is about fun is because it's unsociable, and a game of elitism and brutality. Not only that, but a lot of the elitism is just name-dropping, so it's hard to take an opinion seriously. All the Goths I've met don't care I'm not the biggest fan of Skinny Puppy or The Sisters of Mercy, but as long as I love some Goth music, such as Dark Electro, they won't make me conform to their standards.

    hallowedscream said:
    and I've already seen the comments by those silly bands who got well payed for the shit they've said.


    This makes me laugh. I've always thought the fans are more elitist than those that play the music. I'm pretty sure a Manowar member listens to Disturbed for example.

    hallowedscream said:
    when looks take 50% of a 'sub-culture' everyone should ask themselves what the hell.


    Just an opinion, I love dressing up, it's fun even if it requires a lot of maintenance. What is a Goth without looking like a Goth? A Metal fan can wear anything though, whilst I would say the bands are 50% image.

  • why would anyone listen to something that requires "ear training"?
    "The only other example I can give is claiming to be something / a genre that you are not. " - B+ for that.
    I am not saying that you don't have fun.
    music can be worshipped (kinda like rocket science) and enjoyed on different levels; there's a great example - people in africa have a good time listening and dancing to simple beats.
    maybe you just simply don't understand.
    personally, I hate bands with no talent that are just spoiling what is called 'metal'.
    maybe I don't want to believe that in the near future there will be no heavy metal band with solo like in 'beyond the realms of death'.
    that doesn't mean I am close-minded, but to me heavy metal is superior.
    I don't actually care what musicians listen to in their private life, as long as they make good music. (manowar was a pretty funny example)
    I like dressing up on halloween, you know. thumbs up for your effort (y), but in the end music keeps people together.
    bands are over 50% when they want to attract people, cause the music itself is not enough. kinda like manowar. I love some bands and I still have no idea how they look like.

  • goths OWN metalheads. nuff said.

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