• Pretentious vegans/vegetarians

    A while ago I heard a vegan/vegetarian say "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."

    Post more anecdotes about pretentious and self-important vegans/vegetarians here.

    • Tjara said...
    • User
    • 10 Feb 2009, 21:59
    Very interesting.

    Why do people who eat sunflower seed care, when they children die? They have eaten Ms. Sunflower babies, so they should not care, right?

    EDIT:
    The best thing are vegans who live with parents and keep complaining about mum (usually called "the cunt" or something similar) who is trying to talk them into eating meat, talking about health and ability to have pink loafs (aka babies) and quality of hair/skin etc. etc. And at the precise moment you order a steak, they do the same thing.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 11 Feb 2009, 00:29

    Re: Pretentious vegans/vegetarians

    KazetNagorra disse:
    A while ago I heard a vegan/vegetarian say "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."

    My answer to this one would be "why vegans care about forests being devastated? They eat vegetables!"

  • A while ago I heard a vegan/vegetarian say "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."

    My response back would be that I don't eat arthropods, so I do care.

    Confusion ensues, as in their statement they are assuming the pet would be a nice fuzzy vertebrate, probably a mammal like a cat/dog/rabbit/hamster, or reptile like snake or lizard. My pet is in actuality... a millipede.

    FOOLS.



    (Though my statement is partially false as I do eat crab and shrimp, but its safe to assume that if the person is ignorant enough to make their assertion in the first place, they probably won't be able to pick up on the loophole...)

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
  • I have heard of a whole family of vegans that feed their dog with vegetables only. Thats just so fucking ridiculous.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 13 Feb 2009, 01:08
    I heard about a woman who refused to give milk to her baby. The child almost died.

  • Gordon__ said:
    I have heard of a whole family of vegans that feed their dog with vegetables only. Thats just so fucking ridiculous.
    Hahaha, pathetic.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 14 Feb 2009, 03:24
    Gordon__ disse:
    I have heard of a whole family of vegans that feed their dog with vegetables only. Thats just so fucking ridiculous.

    That's EXTREMELY pathetic! Dogs are carnivorous. They must think all animals should be vegetarians...

    • Tjara said...
    • User
    • 14 Feb 2009, 21:26
    Hm, isn't it Paul McCartney, who is feeding cats with vegetables? Poor animals:-(

    • bex6488 said...
    • User
    • 16 Feb 2009, 11:54
    "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."
    - i think that this is a perfectly reasonable statement, personally! it seems ridiculous to love and care for one animal while eating loads of others. they're all alive, they all feel pain and emotion.. i think people are too detatched from the food they eat - if people wouldn't be prepared to kill animals themselves, then they shouldn't be eating meat.

    "why vegans care about forests being devastated? They eat vegetables!"
    - caring about deforestation is completely different to eating vegetables. if you grow vegetables, pick them, more grow.. no harm done. if you cut down forests to graze cattle for meat, the forests are gone, the trees are no longer making oxygen, and in their place are a load of cows creating greenhouse gases.

    "Why do people who eat sunflower seed care, when they children die? They have eaten Ms. Sunflower babies, so they should not care, right?"
    - plants do not have a central nervous system. they do not feel pain, or emotions. if you kick a sunflower, it won't squeal. if you kicked a person, a dog, a cow, a pig.. they'd squeal. they feel pain. when they are slaughtered, they feel the pain. just like you or i would.

  • bex6488 said:
    "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."
    - i think that this is a perfectly reasonable statement, personally! it seems ridiculous to love and care for one animal while eating loads of others. they're all alive, they all feel pain and emotion.. i think people are too detatched from the food they eat - if people wouldn't be prepared to kill animals themselves, then they shouldn't be eating meat.

    "why vegans care about forests being devastated? They eat vegetables!"
    - caring about deforestation is completely different to eating vegetables. if you grow vegetables, pick them, more grow.. no harm done. if you cut down forests to graze cattle for meat, the forests are gone, the trees are no longer making oxygen, and in their place are a load of cows creating greenhouse gases.

    "Why do people who eat sunflower seed care, when they children die? They have eaten Ms. Sunflower babies, so they should not care, right?"
    - plants do not have a central nervous system. they do not feel pain, or emotions. if you kick a sunflower, it won't squeal. if you kicked a person, a dog, a cow, a pig.. they'd squeal. they feel pain. when they are slaughtered, they feel the pain. just like you or i would.


    I have nothing against slaughtering an animal myself. But I have found it much easier to go to shop and buy it prepared. Still I love my dog and my two turtles.

    You would't feel any pain if a metal rod penetrated your brain in fractions of second. Believe me.

  • bex6488 said:
    "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."
    - i think that this is a perfectly reasonable statement, personally! it seems ridiculous to love and care for one animal while eating loads of others. they're all alive, they all feel pain and emotion.. i think people are too detatched from the food they eat - if people wouldn't be prepared to kill animals themselves, then they shouldn't be eating meat.

    "why vegans care about forests being devastated? They eat vegetables!"
    - caring about deforestation is completely different to eating vegetables. if [b[you grow vegetables, pick them, more grow.. no harm done. if you cut down forests to graze cattle for meat, the forests are gone, the trees are no longer making oxygen, and in their place are a load of cows creating greenhouse gases.


    If you raise cattle, "pick them", they breed some more, no harm done... That's essentially the same thing, you know. You're just projecting human awareness and emotion onto creatures with vastly different neural wiring, selectively.

    It is also worth noting that most people keep as pets animals that are generally not used for food in their culture. Most pets are either carnivorous, rodents, or not mammals, and most food animals are herd-based herbivores. Sure, some people keep goats as pets, but not as many as keep dogs and cats. The idea of a "pleasure pet" is a relatively new idea, as our ancestors would have kept these animals (specifically dogs and cats) for a practical purpose... herding, hunting, etc. There is no reason to kill and eat your prized hunting dog, but all the reason to kill and eat a deer, and it would make sense to have cultural adaptation to psychologically steer people away from eating useful animals. Don't get me wrong, livestock had/have use, too, but um, that use was food/wool/milk/etc.


    You also did not address my point in this thread, I don't eat myriopods, so is it ok for me to care if my millipede dies?

    OH and I also would kill/skin/gut the food I eat, I just live in a city and never actually have to. I think I did gut a fish once when I was a kid, or at least killed it after I caught it and let a professional gut it.

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 18 Feb 2009, 11:20

    Re: Pretentious vegans/vegetarians

    KazetNagorra said:
    A while ago I heard a vegan/vegetarian say "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."


    My answer would have been:
    "I don't. In fact, my meat eating is my reason to keep pets. You see that cuddly little bunny behind bars? That's tomorrow's dinner."

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 18 Feb 2009, 11:25
    bex6488 said:
    plants do not have a central nervous system. they do not feel pain, or emotions


    Though I have heard news about different results in experiments about plants' feelings, I would ask: If I can clone animals who will feel no pain, because I just leave out those "wires", can I eat them without vegans preaching to me?

    • Tjara said...
    • User
    • 18 Feb 2009, 19:42
    I'm prepared to kill the animals myself; I actually kill my food if I can (which is not often, as I live in a city) and I kill lab animals on weekly basis.

    bex6488 said:

    "Why do people who eat sunflower seed care, when they children die? They have eaten Ms. Sunflower babies, so they should not care, right?"
    - plants do not have a central nervous system. they do not feel pain, or emotions. if you kick a sunflower, it won't squeal. if you kicked a person, a dog, a cow, a pig.. they'd squeal. they feel pain. when they are slaughtered, they feel the pain. just like you or i would.


    I would not feel pain, if I was slaughtered fast enough. Dunno where you live, but local slaughterhouses are not allowed kill the animals slowly. Leaving out ethical reasons, the meat would be tough.
    Plus, I don't care about their suffering. So they will suffer, feel pain and fear - but I'm gonna get good dinner. What's more important - me enjoying food, or someone else suffering?

  • Tjara said:
    What's more important - me enjoying food, or someone else suffering?


    That's the spirit :-)

    No j/k, I actually care about animal suffering. But as Tjara said - it is OK when animal is slaughtered fast enough to feel no pain. I would rather see animal slaugthered this way rather than see it being slowly killed by a predator in wilderness.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 18 Feb 2009, 20:53
    Actually, when killed by predators, most of the times they are "all right". I mean, they get a bite in the neck, get into shock, which saves them from the worst. Or look at the common housecat, playing with the mouse, so the mouse "eases up" before he's killed. Getting slowly consumed by piranhas is a different issue, I guess.
    But we can agree that a good steak is a far better end than a bullfight.

  • bex6488 said:
    "Why do people who eat meat care if their pet dies? They eat meat."
    - i think that this is a perfectly reasonable statement, personally! it seems ridiculous to love and care for one animal while eating loads of others. they're all alive, they all feel pain and emotion.. i think people are too detatched from the food they eat - if people wouldn't be prepared to kill animals themselves, then they shouldn't be eating meat.

    Being emotionally attached to a pet does not having anything to do with the fact that the pet feels emotion and pain. People can get attached to robot dogs and inanimate objects as well.

    Why should people be willing to kill for their food in order to eat meat?

  • Vegan....

    All of them are buttfucks...

    ....
  • eh

    I don't want to poison the well by saying all vegans are crazy, but when someone feeds a dog only vegetables that just plain silly. Unless you can breed a dog with an herbivores digestive system, thats just plain cruel.

    Also, if i do or don't mourn when my pet dies, how does that change the ethics of killing other animals for food? its a value question, that cow is less valuable than my dog. why? simple, I like my dog and he keeps me company, he appears to reciprocate these feelings. therefore I'll kill the cow and not the dog. before it may have been for other reasons. for example i read a theory stating that Indians(from India) do not eat cattle because they need them to pull their plows during the harvest. they have viscous dry seasons, and if they were to eat their cows during this time they would be worse off later on. Essentially disciplining themselves towards a more vegetarian diet out of necessity. If that theory is to be true, than the cows feelings were probably never really part of the equation.

    basically just because we choose to eat one animal over another does not mean we devalue life as a whole.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 24 Feb 2009, 01:47
    bex6488 disse:

    "Why do people who eat sunflower seed care, when they children die? They have eaten Ms. Sunflower babies, so they should not care, right?"
    - plants do not have a central nervous system. they do not feel pain, or emotions. if you kick a sunflower, it won't squeal. if you kicked a person, a dog, a cow, a pig.. they'd squeal. they feel pain. when they are slaughtered, they feel the pain. just like you or i would.
    This statement is just unacceptable. Even if plants can't feel pain, they're still alive. If the problem with killing animals is the pain they feel, we can sedate them before killing'em, and then everything's allright,huh?

    • bex6488 said...
    • User
    • 25 Feb 2009, 11:21
    I'm not very good with words, so I'm just going to leave you with some snippets of articles written by people who are, regarding slaughter techniques etc. I might be back at some point to deal with other issues you've raised, though. If you can read all this and still think it's fine to eat meat, then fair play to you, but I can't imaine anyone being so coldhearted that this wouldn't upset them to the point that they can no longer bring themselves to be a part of such suffering. Personally I can't stand to read this stuff; it really upsets me, and so I have no right to eat meat. -

    "Cattle slaughter

    The majority of cattle are stunned with the captive bolt pistol. Penetrative captive bolt stunners drive a bolt into the skull and cause unconsciousness both through physical brain damage and the concussive blow to the skull. The bolt on a non-penetrative stunner is ‘mushroom-headed’ and impacts on the brain without entering the skull. Unconsciousness is caused by the concussive blow.

    If an animal is not accurately stunned or the correct cartridge strength is not used, the stun will not be effective. The EU Scientific Veterinary Committee estimate that around 5 to 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively with the captive bolt - or up to 230,000 animals a year. These animals experience the pain of being shot in the head and will either be stunned again (a difficult procedure) or continue on for knifing whilst conscious.

    In an attempt to improve accuracy, legislation requires that cattle are either confined in a stunning pen or have their heads ‘securely fastened’. However, head restraint systems can cause great distress. The MHS says that 17% of abattoirs either do not use a restraint or use an “inefficient” restraint which can result in the stun being delivered ineffectively.

    Says abattoir vet Gabriele Meurer, ‘Not many animals stand still. They are all upset, some very frightened and some move violently. The animals are never given time to calm down. Sometimes the slaughterman misses, wounding the animal terribly instead of stunning it. It may happen that the second shot cannot be done immediately and the animal is suffering for quite some time.’

    In addition to the stress of being in an unfamiliar environment, the electric goad can legally be used on the hindquarters of cattle and pigs if they are refusing to move forwards. This cruel device is intentionally designed to cause pain.

    Worn out dairy cows may be subjected to a painful experience before they are killed. It is becoming increasingly common for novice artificial inseminators to ‘practise’ on cull cows in abattoirs. For welfare reasons, novice inseminators are advised to practise only on cows who will be slaughtered on that day. The message here is that this practice is considered distressing for cows - but that if they are about to be killed then this does not matter.


    Pig slaughter

    Most pigs are electrically stunned and research has shown that the inaccurate placement of the electric tongs is a big problem within the industry. Research has shown that 36% of tong placements do not span the brain as required by law. 13.3% of pigs are stunned on the snout and jaws - a position which is not recommended because animals may fail to lose consciousness. Viva! estimates that in the UK, 125,000 pigs a year will not be stunned at all because of this.

    Pigs stay unconscious for an average of 42 seconds but not all pigs will be unconscious for as long as this. They take up to 23 seconds to lose brain responsiveness, meaning that the interval between stunning and knifing should certainly not be longer than 19 seconds. But MHS statistics reveal that in many abattoirs, the interval between stunning and knifing is longer than this. Viva! estimates that in the UK, approximately a million pigs will regain consciousness before they die from loss of blood. We have video footage showing pigs regaining consciousness as they bleed to death.

    Says abattoir vet Gabriele Meurer, ‘The slaughtermen are in such a hurry that they often don’t put the electric tongs in the correct position on the pigs’ heads. The pigs get only half or insufficiently stunned, wake up while they bleed and are obviously still alive and conscious when they plunge into the boiling water. Sheep are stunned just as badly.’

    25% of pigs - over 2 million a year - are stunned with CO2 gas. It takes pigs up to 30 seconds to lose consciousness and during that time they will squeal, hyperventilate and try to escape. Pigs are supposed to be left in the gas chamber until the gas kills them and then ‘bled out’.

    The captive bolt pistol is not recommended for pigs because the brain lies deep down in the head and it is difficult to cause unconsciousness. Yet the captive bolt pistol continues to be used for pigs in a high number of low throughput premises.

    Chickens, turkeys, ducks and geese

    1.7 million birds a year die before they even reach abattoir - from heart failure, dislocation of the hip and having their skulls crushed when the drawers on the transporter are closed.

    UK legislation states that turkeys can be shackled by their legs for up to six minutes and other birds for up to three minutes before they are killed - despite evidence showing that the procedure causes extreme suffering. Chickens and turkeys are bred to grow so fast that most suffer from painful leg problems.

    Before being killed, birds’ heads are supposed to be immersed in an electrified waterbath in an attempt to cause unconsciousness. Some birds defecate during stunning meaning that birds can inhale faeces when they are dipped into the waterbath. Turkeys can also suffer painful pre-stun electric shocks because their wings hang lower than their heads and can enter the bath first. Despite attempts to change the system, scientists estimate that around 6% of turkeys - or 2.1 million turkeys each year - still receive prestun electric shocks.

    Birds are known to “swan-neck” - raising their heads when entering the electrical waterbath and so avoiding full immersion. This is a particular problem for ducks and geese. Any birds who are not stunned are meant to be decapitated by a ‘back-up killer’ whilst conscious. The killer will be working with a line speed of up to 9,000 birds an hour and any birds who are missed continue on to the neck-cutter.

    Birds routinely regain consciousness before they die if they do not have a cardiac arrest when they enter the waterbath. This is because they take much longer than mammals to lose brain responsiveness. Broiler chickens have been shown to recover consciousness 52 seconds after stunning in an electrical waterbath. Hens have been shown to recover consciousness after as little as 22 seconds. This means that birds who do not have a cardiac arrest will recover consciousness after being knived. It takes chickens nearly three minutes to lose brain responsiveness if both carotid arteries are severed and around 5 minutes if one jugular artery and one carotid artery is severed. If 90% of birds have a cardiac arrest at stunning, a further 62 million birds will regain consciousness before they die from loss of blood.

    14 abattoirs appear to use automatic neck-cutters which only sever one carotid artery. In this case, birds who do not have a cardiac arrest at stunning will still be alive when they enter the scalding tank. Viva! estimates that 8.4 million birds will only have one carotid artery cut and will therefore be conscious on entering the scalding tank."

    http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/slaughter/index.htm

    You have to understand that us vegans aren't trying to be awkward, or upset, anger or offend people. All we want to do is end animal suffering, because the fact that it goes on really upsets us, and so we feel we can't sit back and allow it to happen, and we certainly can't be a part of it. So I hope you guys will consider, and be respectful towards, my point of view. Cheers

  • So you are actually against the meat INDUSTRY, not eating meat itself?

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
  • I wouldn't care so much about pigs and cattle. Despite I am all for eating meat, this one disgusts me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOwrX2XKZLc

  • bex6488 said:

    All we want to do is end animal suffering, because the fact that it goes on really upsets us, and so we feel we can't sit back and allow it to happen, and we certainly can't be a part of it. So I hope you guys will consider, and be respectful towards, my point of view. Cheers


    So why do vegans and vegetarians never argue for the shooting of predators? I doubt slowly bleeding to death is very pleasant.

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