MB not really the best source for last.fm data

- Psy_b said...
- User
- 13 May 2009, 13:18
MB not really the best source for last.fm data

I've been using MB and been an active member of the community there for a couple of months. I do it because I want to get my tags right for last.fm. One qualm I have with the MB data is that there is no desire to distinguish between different tracks by the same artist with the same name (primarily untitled tracks by the artist), or to consolidate tracks named differently on different releases (primarily things like track name (album version)).

Don't read the above sentence again if it didn't make sense the first time - here's an example to illustrate:

(1) Artist Odd Nosdam has a release No More Wig for Ohio where none of the tracks are named. So when I scrobble the album I get 21 [untitled] tracks for Odd Nosdam on my charts.

(2) If I listen to American Pie on the single version of this release it will not scrobble the same as if I listened to it on the album even though it is the same exact recording of the song.

If MB is used by other applications apart from last.fm then may be the current way is the best way to organise the data. Otherwise, maybe it isn't?

[quote][b][user]Psy_b[/user][/b] said: I've been using MB and been an active member of the community there for a couple of months. I do it because I want to get my tags right for last.fm. One qualm I have with the MB data is that there is no desire to distinguish between different tracks by the same artist with the same name (primarily untitled tracks by the artist), or to consolidate tracks named differently on different releases (primarily things like [i]track name (album version)[/i]). Don't read the above sentence again if it didn't make sense the first time - here's an example to illustrate: (1) Artist [artist]Odd Nosdam[/artist] has a release [url=http://musicbrainz.org/release/ff00335a-3652-4a5b-8631-d53adf423900.html]No More Wig for Ohio[/url] where none of the tracks are named. So when I scrobble the album I get 21 [untitled] tracks for Odd Nosdam on my charts. (2) If I listen to [url=http://musicbrainz.org/track/0b524b00-b10c-4046-8f01-4c7fc32e913a.html]American Pie[/url] on the single version of this release it will not scrobble the same as if I listened to it on [url=http://musicbrainz.org/track/d87b0947-d740-4976-bae5-1cbfbdf90c7a.html]the album[/url] even though it is the same exact recording of the song. If MB is used by other applications apart from last.fm then may be the current way is the best way to organise the data. Otherwise, maybe it isn't?[/quote]

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- alvareo said...
- User
- 18 May 2009, 18:55
MusicBrainz rules state that untitled or unlisted tracks MUST be renamed [untitled], unless there are some other known names, where they must be listed [between brackets], as in ( ). But it's up to you to rename them to Untitled #1 or whaever you want to.

[quote][b][user]alvareo[/user][/b] said: MusicBrainz rules state that untitled or unlisted tracks MUST be renamed [untitled], unless there are some other known names, where they must be listed [between brackets], as in [url=http://musicbrainz.org/release/4b374b09-2e39-47a3-9819-8a0eae21db66.html]( )[/url]. But it's up to you to rename them to Untitled #1 or whaever you want to.[/quote]

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- Psy_b said...
- User
- 19 May 2009, 06:05
Right. But can you imagine if Radiohead released an album with only untitled tracks (without an a.k.a.)? It would stuff the last.fm charts for good.

I would prefer the MB untitled style to attempt track differentiation - if not for an artist, at least within a release. e.g. [release name, track no.]. Do you think that would be an improvement?

[quote][b][user]Psy_b[/user][/b] said: Right. But can you imagine if Radiohead released an album with only untitled tracks (without an a.k.a.)? It would stuff the last.fm charts for good. I would prefer the MB untitled style to attempt track differentiation - if not for an artist, at least within a release. e.g. [b][release name, [i]track no.[/i]][/b]. Do you think that would be an improvement?[/quote]

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- alvareo said...
- User
- 2 Jun 2009, 00:38
Well, MusicBrainz wasn't meant for Last.fm integration, and if in all-untitled releases it would be pointless to have that, since you're supposed to be on the website and you can look up and see the release name and track number.

[quote][b][user]alvareo[/user][/b] said: Well, MusicBrainz wasn't meant for Last.fm integration, and if in all-untitled releases it would be pointless to have that, since you're supposed to be on the website and you can look up and see the release name and track number.[/quote]

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- liDEL said...
- User
- 20 Mar 2010, 21:06
Posting late, but this requires clarification (in case somebody will read this thread in future):

(1) If your music files are tagged in a proper manner and contain mbid (MusicBrainz ID), every track can be distinguished (even if titles are the same) and this information is stored at last.fm if you submit plays with mbid-aware scobbler.

The visual representation of this information, on the other hand, is Last.fm internal doing (MB has nothing to do with it). But that can be improved, and since all data is already there – nothing will be lost.

(2) This is a GOOD THING. Its easier to link recordings later, than to deal with mess of mistakenly merged ones. There are many ways Last.fm could link occurrences of the same recording, eg. using ISRC information provided by MusicBrainz. Once again: It is not MB's fault that Last.fm do not implement this functionality yet.

Long story short: problem you described does not exist. Remember – data is there. Last.fm just needs to implement proper ways of handling it.

[quote][b][user]liDEL[/user][/b] said: Posting late, but this requires [i]clarification[/i] (in case somebody will read this thread in future): (1) If your music files are tagged in a [i]proper manner[/i] and contain mbid ([url=http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MBID]MusicBrainz ID[/url]), [u]every track can be distinguished[/u] ([u]even if titles are the same[/u]) and this information is stored at last.fm if you submit plays with mbid-aware scobbler. The visual representation of this information, on the other hand, is Last.fm internal doing ([u]MB has nothing to do with it[/u]). But that can be improved, and since all data is already there – nothing will be lost. (2) This is a [u]GOOD THING[/u]. Its easier to link recordings later, than to deal with mess of mistakenly merged ones. There are many ways Last.fm could link occurrences of the same recording, eg. using [url=http://musicbrainz.org/doc/ISRC]ISRC[/url] information provided by MusicBrainz. Once again: [u]It is not MB's fault that Last.fm do not implement this functionality yet.[/u] [b]Long story short: [/b]problem you described does not exist. Remember – data is there. Last.fm just needs to implement proper ways of handling it.[/quote]

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- atiredmachine said...
- User
- 3 Nov 2011, 12:55
I think this better clarifies the issue...

"untitled" isn't the only example in which many different and distinct tracks may have the same name.

Many artists, especially composers, have multiple songs as parts of different works/albums entitled "Prelude" for instance. Isao Tomita even has an album where every other track is titled "Promenade", for example.

Seems like the solution is simple enough (analyze at all meta data, including album and track number, when determining the identity of a track (which incidently could also be used to solve the issue of multiple artists with the same name)). There are simple enough ways of disambiguating artists and tracks, just look at AllMusic for one example.

Perhaps with a little more fore-thought last.fm could have had a fundamentally more sound structure without requiring such a dramatic conceptual and structural overhaul.

http://bandcampscrobbler.bandwidthbeta.com - Bandcamp/Last.fm Mash-up!

[quote][b][user]atiredmachine[/user][/b] said: "untitled" isn't the only example in which many different and distinct tracks may have the same name. Many artists, especially composers, have multiple songs as parts of different works/albums entitled "Prelude" for instance. [artist]Isao Tomita[/artist] even has an album where every other track is titled "[track artist=Isao Tomita]Promenade[/track]", for example. Seems like the solution is simple enough (analyze at all meta data, including album and track number, when determining the identity of a track (which incidently could also be used to solve the issue of multiple artists with the same name)). There are simple enough ways of disambiguating artists and tracks, just look at AllMusic for one example. Perhaps with a little more fore-thought last.fm could have had a fundamentally more sound structure without requiring such a dramatic conceptual and structural overhaul.[/quote]

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MB not really the best source for last.fm data

MB not really the best source for last.fm data

I think this better clarifies the issue...