The Future of Last.fm Radio APIs

 
  • people you are crazy yet valid

    ya last.fm was free, ya we all love Mobbler, but stop demonizing there decision. A company has to be able to make money, especially one that provides, a lot of you admit this, a great service. They have come out an said that they understand that Mobbler and programs like it make up a huge portion of there success. they've even said they are pro actively getting into contact with these third party programs to get them up and running again.



    so chill out.



    I want to say this with some understanding of other peoples financial situation. but to the best of my knowledge everyone is griping about a 3 dollar a month fee. i think i loose 3 dollars a month in pocket change.



    I personally will wait a month or two see how it all settles and then decide to sign up.

    • rodakk said...
    • User
    • 26 Mar 2009, 23:00
    Scrobbling will always be free to use in Mobbler, for now on streaming tracks will require a subscription.

  • _voice said:
    I already asked in the blog, but will ask here too:

    So where can I send my bank details?

    Since you seem to charge money for ALL tracks on Last.fm and that includes mine, I guess I’ll get my share of your income right?

    (Yeah, I know about the royality program and I also know that that’s about the ad revenue, not the money you earn from subscribers.)

    Not that I wanna talk about independend artists getting ripped of, but it sure looks like it when you sell our content without paying us…


    I would highly recommend pulling all your content from last.fm immediately and negotiating a streaming contract. Get in contact with as many other independent musicians as you can and organize a co-op to improve your bargaining power.

    (Full disclosure: IANAL, but I am a promoter and I've worked with artist co-ops before.)

  • LastFMProxy

    Hmm, I suppose this is the end of LastFMProxy, which would allow you to connect any third-party player to the radio stream, including mobile phones?

    Tune in to the last.fm radio with any player: LastFMProxy
    • _voice said...
    • User
    • 27 Mar 2009, 13:31
    templatemaster sagte:
    I would highly recommend pulling all your content from last.fm immediately and negotiating a streaming contract. Get in contact with as many other independent musicians as you can and organize a co-op to improve your bargaining power.

    There's a problem with that: I don't want a contract for paid streaming. I want my music to be free for everyone, as long as they don't make money with it.

    That's how I pay for the music I listen to. I stopped buying music a few years ago and started to only listen to free music (the non-free stuff on my profile are the albums I bought before that). And I "pay" for this free music by giving something back to the community: My own tracks, samples, promotional work and more.

    BTW that's what especially pisses me off about this latest "let's crap on our users a little more and see how long they take it" decision: I don't fucking want commercial music. Why would I spend money to pay for stuff I don't even want?

    So I release all my tracks as CC by-nc-sa (which states that I don't allow commercial use, so last.fm would have to ask me to delete my tracks anyway, if they don't want to breach the license).

    I'll wait until more details about the change are available.

    But my first reaction was to get the domain "phatsonic.org" and start coding a replacement for last.fm. ;)
    (That domain is empty right now, nothing to see yet.)

    I guess my reactions when I'm angry seem kinda strange for most people... :D

    • caban said...
    • User
    • 27 Mar 2009, 19:44

    Re:Re: Re: The Future of Last.fm Radio APIs

    Russ said:

    It's a restriction imposed by some of our music licensing partners, and not by us.

    If you choose to have partnerships on those terms, you do impose the restrictions on yourself.
    It's not that it would be impossible to have a service with only music using reasonable licenses, even though it might not line your pockets as much.

    But don't blame the changes on your partners, you agreed to the changes by entering or staying in the partnership.

    • Llinton said...
    • User
    • 28 Mar 2009, 00:09

    Short term situation and the policing of 'rogue' apps

    Will applications using the reverse engineered APIs cease to work for non-subscribers immediately on March 30, or will they be left working for everyone (or everyone in UK/US/DE) until they are killed completely?

    What factors will influence the exact timeframe for killing the old APIs?

    It is suggested that open source apps don't need to take measures to hide their API key. Will there be active policing of 'rogue' applications making use of 'stolen' keys?

  • _voice said:
    templatemaster sagte:
    I would highly recommend pulling all your content from last.fm immediately and negotiating a streaming contract. Get in contact with as many other independent musicians as you can and organize a co-op to improve your bargaining power.

    There's a problem with that: I don't want a contract for paid streaming. I want my music to be free for everyone, as long as they don't make money with it.

    That's how I pay for the music I listen to. I stopped buying music a few years ago and started to only listen to free music (the non-free stuff on my profile are the albums I bought before that). And I "pay" for this free music by giving something back to the community: My own tracks, samples, promotional work and more.

    BTW that's what especially pisses me off about this latest "let's crap on our users a little more and see how long they take it" decision: I don't fucking want commercial music. Why would I spend money to pay for stuff I don't even want?

    So I release all my tracks as CC by-nc-sa (which states that I don't allow commercial use, so last.fm would have to ask me to delete my tracks anyway, if they don't want to breach the license).

    I'll wait until more details about the change are available.

    But my first reaction was to get the domain "phatsonic.org" and start coding a replacement for last.fm. ;)
    (That domain is empty right now, nothing to see yet.)

    I guess my reactions when I'm angry seem kinda strange for most people... :D


    I can see why you're annoyed but the money that they make from the subscriptions is what is paying your royalties. Obviously the money from ads wasn't enough so they had to change for something else to make sure they could continue paying the artists.

    ONGOING PROJECT! PHP Last.FM API (Download or SVN)
    Online Last.FM Player (Updated version is SVN only currently)
    • tburny said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 28 Mar 2009, 01:12
    just noticed the client update :) now radio api includes an api key....only for player identification?

    Combo.fm: Combine your favourite radio stations! | My Blog | scala-lastfmapi | Cache2k - A high performance Java in-memory cache
    P.S.: Do not click here
    throw new PokemonException(); //Gotta catch 'em all
    My forum post reflects my personal opinion :)
    • _voice said...
    • User
    • 28 Mar 2009, 01:46
    lotrgamemast sagte:
    I can see why you're annoyed but the money that they make from the subscriptions is what is paying your royalties. Obviously the money from ads wasn't enough so they had to change for something else to make sure they could continue paying the artists.

    Interesting idea for a justification, but wrong. As an independent artist you get a share of Last.fms income depending on your play-count and their income. Meaning: Less money for Last.fm equals to less money for the artists.

    Now I'm pretty shure that the mayor players of the content mafia (alias music business) don't swing that way and demand either (pretty high) fixed royalties or (higher than they are now) variable royalties. So we're back to square A: Independent artists are fucked because of the commercial music.

    Of course, there's the faint possibility of independent artists getting an equal piece of the now bigger cake...
    - But 1st: I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
    - And 2nd: That still transforms Last.fm from "the best thing in the world of music since many years" to "just another paid music site like thousands of others".
    - And last: Let's wait and see if the cake get's bigger. Chances are high that most people will either just use the (still) free features and forget about the rest or leave.

    What's happening now is pretty much what I predicted when they had their big "all the mayor label music streamable" announcement. It just came sooner than I thought.
    You can't be in bed with the mayor labels without being raped sooner or later.

  • So, does this mean I'll need to be a subscriber to use an application such as Amarok or Songbird to listen to last.fm radio, even though I'm in the US?


  • BUMBAGS!

    I Think this is a really bad decision last FM, i will be looking for a new source of music, from now on!

    • akrde said...
    • User
    • 28 Mar 2009, 11:34
    ...tracked!

    • Russ said...
    • Alumni
    • 28 Mar 2009, 12:09

    Re: Re:Re: Re: The Future of Last.fm Radio APIs

    caban said:
    If you choose to have partnerships on those terms, you do impose the restrictions on yourself.
    It's not that it would be impossible to have a service with only music using reasonable licenses, even though it might not line your pockets as much.

    But don't blame the changes on your partners, you agreed to the changes by entering or staying in the partnership.


    I agree. We could operate our site without our major deals, but we would not have all the users we have now. Our manifesto has always been that anyone can come to last.fm and listen to any piece of music (ideally for free). The only way we can implement this is by entering into restrictive agreements with the labels.

    Consider the backlash if we announced we'd be dropping 95% of all our content because we don't like the licenses.

    Get rid of the major-label content, and you're basically turning Last.fm into Jamendo (which is a great site, but a different idea).

    • Russ said...
    • Alumni
    • 28 Mar 2009, 12:12

    Re: Short term situation and the policing of 'rogue' apps

    Llinton said:
    Will applications using the reverse engineered APIs cease to work for non-subscribers immediately on March 30, or will they be left working for everyone (or everyone in UK/US/DE) until they are killed completely?

    What factors will influence the exact timeframe for killing the old APIs?

    It is suggested that open source apps don't need to take measures to hide their API key. Will there be active policing of 'rogue' applications making use of 'stolen' keys?


    It won't all go dark on March 30th - we'll keep things running until most users are using apps which implement the new APIs.

    darkshadow88 said:
    So, does this mean I'll need to be a subscriber to use an application such as Amarok or Songbird to listen to last.fm radio, even though I'm in the US?


    This is correct, unless the developers of Amarok or Songbird want to come forward and pay the royalties for the music you stream ;).

    • f-xool said...
    • User
    • 28 Mar 2009, 23:24
    _voice said:
    There's a problem with that: I don't want a contract for paid streaming. I want my music to be free for everyone, as long as they don't make money with it.
    Exactly!

    • Russ said...
    • Alumni
    • 29 Mar 2009, 02:49
    f-xool said:
    _voice said:
    There's a problem with that: I don't want a contract for paid streaming. I want my music to be free for everyone, as long as they don't make money with it.
    Exactly!


    We hear you. We're definitely going to be looking into more royalty-free (including Creative Commons) music in the future - it's a point we're lacking in at the moment.

    • s-mac said...
    • User
    • 29 Mar 2009, 08:17
    I'm a tad confused,

    Will I still be able to stream Last.FM Radio over my home computer and laptop?
    I don't use lastFM on my phone(slow net connection on my phone + it has FM radio & I use an IPod)

    Just like to clear this up, Mobile phones are losing the free radio, and computer may still use it??

    • sorrito said...
    • User
    • 29 Mar 2009, 11:33

    Re: Re:Re: Re: The Future of Last.fm Radio APIs

    caban escribió:
    Russ said:

    It's a restriction imposed by some of our music licensing partners, and not by us.

    If you choose to have partnerships on those terms, you do impose the restrictions on yourself.
    It's not that it would be impossible to have a service with only music using reasonable licenses, even though it might not line your pockets as much.

    But don't blame the changes on your partners, you agreed to the changes by entering or staying in the partnership.


    I can't clearly say it. Put them off and stay free.

    Edited by sorrito on 29 Mar 2009, 13:55
    • s-mac said...
    • User
    • 29 Mar 2009, 11:38
    So I read the blog.
    Now if I'm American, yet living in Australia...I still don't get the free radio do I?
    I'm contemplating getting a membership, but it's in Euros which is a big fucking rip off considering that it takes 2 AUD to = 1 Euro...

    I want to know what I can do?

    • Russ said...
    • Alumni
    • 29 Mar 2009, 12:02
    s-mac said:
    So I read the blog.
    Now if I'm American, yet living in Australia...I still don't get the free radio do I?
    I'm contemplating getting a membership, but it's in Euros which is a big fucking rip off considering that it takes 2 AUD to = 1 Euro...

    I want to know what I can do?


    You can also pay in US Dollars or the (apparently now worthless ;) GB Pound.

    • uvok said...
    • User
    • 29 Mar 2009, 12:18

    sad...

    This is really sad...
    I used to listen to last.fm radio via Vagalume, think this won't be possible anymore...

    I was so happy that *I* don't have to pay 3€ per month to be able to stream music over last.fm (living in germany), and now that...

    Well, I guess that listening to last.fm over your own application will be possible without problems?

  • WTF?

    Is it true that you could only subscribe when you have a creditcard?

    Nice for people who don't have one....-_-

    • s-mac said...
    • User
    • 29 Mar 2009, 14:20
    Paypal, You may or may not be able to send cheques, I don't have any idea if you can.


    Russ said:
    s-mac said:
    So I read the blog.
    Now if I'm American, yet living in Australia...I still don't get the free radio do I?
    I'm contemplating getting a membership, but it's in Euros which is a big fucking rip off considering that it takes 2 AUD to = 1 Euro...

    I want to know what I can do?


    You can also pay in US Dollars or the (apparently now worthless ;) GB Pound.



    I have US Dollars in my bank which is connected to my paypal. Arg, fine erg, Im withdrawing $30, in 3 days Imma bite the bullet and get a subscription.......

  • This sucks big time! :'( I love Pocket Scrobbler for my HTC Diamond! I was going to renew my subscription, but now I really gotta think about it! *sigh*

    Edited by lozer_kid on 29 Mar 2009, 18:42
Anonymous users may not post messages. Please log in or create an account to post in the forums.