Last.fm Beta » Discussions

Question about Friendships

 

  • Question about Friendships

    The new version of Last.fm changes the way friends work: we're switching to the more traditional model of sending friend requests which are then accepted or declined.
    I'm confused by this. What happens when someone declines a friend request? Are they removed from my friends list? If so, why? If I'm the one that considers them a friend then why would they have any say over what I think? What is the advantage of the new model over the existing one?

    The be honest, I don't really know anyone on this site. I use the friends feature to "bookmark" people whose taste in music I like. This provides an easy way for me to get back to their personal or neighbour radio. Is this functionality going to disappear on me?

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  • aehm... i'd say there's a slight difference between being a friend and a bookmark... :) and to be honest, i welcome this request feature. just because being friends is a mutual thing. i'm not happy to see when some totally unknown person "befriends" me, doesn't bother to drop a message or something and has even some NSFW avatar, which would display in my profile then... no, thanks.

    i'd guess people like to decide who they want to be friends with... and that's why this feature was added...

    ...correct me somebody if i'm wrong :)

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  • So why not to do a mutual friend section and on-way-friend section (and called it bookmarks instead too)? I think last.fm shouldn't relay on external program functions for this one. If someone feels like bookmarking me, at least I want to know about it some way. This website is all about music and user interaction based on it, so why call it off?

    Disco SucksPaul is dead
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  • the point is, why should such a thing be called "friendship"?

    bookmark somebody, suggest a "favourite users" feature or something, but - i guess this change happens because both people have to agree to be friends. it's what being friends means. or not? :)

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  • I've requested a 'bookmark' feature before. It would be nice to be able to bookmark anything on the site, from users, to artists. That way, people wouldn't have to add users to their friends list just for this purpose.


    Self-Diagnosed Obsessive Compulsives W/ Attention Deficit Disorder

    iPhone • Who Knew You Could Stuff So Much Crap Into a Sidebar?
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  • agree, that would be nifty... being able to "bookmark" favourite users, artists, songs, mods... ;)


    [edit] by the way, it's been discussed also in the feedback & ideas forum, check it and discuss... maybe this could end up with something really nice & useful :)

    http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/125918

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    • flaneur said...
    • Alumni
    • 24 Jun 2006, 22:31
    We'd like to introduce a bookmark feature as well, since it's a completely different (and valid!) use case.

    Simulacra has hit the nail on the head, though -- what we were calling "friendships" sometimes wasn't quite that, and so the changes are designed to reflect that. Since the new site offers a lot more real-time observation and other types of integration with your friends, it's important that both parties agree to the relationship.

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  • I'm just distressed that Russ hasn't accepted my friendship. :(

    Seriously, what hasn't been brought up as an advantage of the old system is why I added Russ (and a few other staff members). And that's so I'd see any new journals from him on my recommended reading list.

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  • i love the idea of a bookmark feature, for bands and profiles.

    c'mon guys :o)

    And if you ever need self-validation
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    People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
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    • RJ said...
    • Alumni
    • 25 Jun 2006, 13:17
    yeah i understand that friends are currently useful as "bookmarks" even if you don't know the person. We'll be thinking about additional functionality (like bookmarks.. although your browser can do that for you) so that you can keep tabs on your favourite non-friend users.

    Information wants to be beer.
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    • popgurl said...
    • User
    • 25 Jun 2006, 15:23

    Quick note on value of visible one-way relationships

    Quick two cents -- There are many valid uses of one way friending that people are doing right now. Personally, I have now lost 1/3 of the people who link to me who I was comfortable having linking to me but didn't want to link to myself because I didn't want to follow their journals or music listening, and one person who I wanted to link to who did not befriend me. You are taking something of value from us to replace it with something that does not seem to be broken.

    If it is broken (yet oddly never mentioned as a problem in the forums), you should:

    - short term: allow people to decline inward links without having to mutually friend people who ask for inward links (solves the 'i don't want strange people linking to me' issue while still allowing people who want them to have them.

    - BUT BETTER STILL, NOT POSTPONE alternative ways to do what we are already doing -- visibly bookmarking journals and profiles in ways that ARE VISIBLE TO OTHER USERS. This is a major contribution to the social fiber of the community amongst users, and if you do not offer immediate alternatives you are taking away a lot of existing connections in the social network.

    I repeat: you are taking away relationships that are working very well for a lot of people on this site without offering a working alternative. You're privileging one kind of relationship over others. Do users want to redefine friendship or is this your idea? What is the larger vision for how users would ideally find, connect to one another, and communicate with one another in a variety of ongoing ways.

    I would like to see 'friends' (mutual if necessary) and a journal roll and interesting musical taste roll.

    I have a lot of thoughts on how users contribute social capital to this group that I don't have time to write out right now (flaneur, contact me if you want to hear them) but I see this as a step backwards in users' ability to connect to each other in a variety of meaningful ways and build user community on the site.

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  • I mark as "friends" people whose opinions and taste I appreciate and trust. I think that's a valid interpretation of internet "friendship." Yes, I can bookmark them in my browser, but browser bookmarks don't give me the features that this site's friendship feature does.

    This is the LiveJournal (and Flickr) model versus the MySpace (and Friendster) model. MySpace sucks. They should learn from this site rather than you following any of their examples. If you feel that this feature needs another name rather than "friends," such as "trusted users," then change the name, not the way it works. Make a tiered system. Just don't completely get rid of the way it works now, since it has worked swimmingly for a long time.

    I'm excited to see the new beta hit the main site (I wish as a poor student that I could still have maintained the cost of subscribing in my budget). This is the only change that you've made in the time I've used Last.fm that I strongly feel shouldn't be made.

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    • flaneur said...
    • Alumni
    • 25 Jun 2006, 16:37
    We've had a bookmarks system in the planning stages for quite some time, and I am confident that it will make its appearance on the site soon.

    We REALLY tried to make our old friending system work, stubbornly sticking to it even when (as mentioned), most other social sites went with the request/accept model. So where did the idea for changing to it come from? Our users. I suspect It's not the kind of thing you would bring up on the forums because it might open yourself up to ridicule, but we receive TONS of support emails and private complaints about "User X added me to their friends list and they're really creepy and I can't take my face off their page please help me it's making me want to leave Last.fm".

    Friendships ought to be consentual -- while we are removing one kind of functionality (which will hopefully reemerge even better soon as bookmarks) -- we are replacing it with much tighter connections and realtime observation of your friends than ever before. (Note that the 'my friends online' section of the dashboard is going to be a standard feature, no longer restricted to subscribers. We'll also be adding a lot more functionality of this ilk soon.) Given the nature of this new functionality, I think mutual trust between users has to be of utmost importance, and the new friends model reflects that.

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    • DoctorT said...
    • User
    • 25 Jun 2006, 16:49
    I like the idea of consensual friendship but I also see the need for intelligent bookmarking so you could still track someone's journals or whatever. I'm happy to hear that bookmarking is in the works.


    Music, like language, is universal.
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    • rappion said...
    • User
    • 25 Jun 2006, 20:56
    On the subject of friends. I can't seem to find the subscriber feature where you can see your friends most recently listened to tracks together on one page.

    Maybe it's just moved or I haven't noticed it, but if it hasn't been implemented, could there be a rethink as it's one of the features I use the most.

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    • flaneur said...
    • Alumni
    • 25 Jun 2006, 21:01
    Hey Rappion,

    This feature is now the new 'My Friends Online' panel, front and centre on your dashboard (link in the top right).

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  • Re:

    Quoth rappion:
    On the subject of friends. I can't seem to find the subscriber feature where you can see your friends most recently listened to tracks together on one page.

    Maybe it's just moved or I haven't noticed it, but if it hasn't been implemented, could there be a rethink as it's one of the features I use the most.

    check http://beta.last.fm/dashboard/ - it's that "My Friends Online" thing... (unfortunately not that good old "What are they listening to?"...)


    [edit] damn, beaten again :P :o)))

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    • rappion said...
    • User
    • 25 Jun 2006, 21:06
    Thank you both! I hadn't noticed that I must admit.

    Will there be an option to increase the number of tracks you can see?

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  • hmm, just tried to type something in the url... and got pleasantly surprised that some things still work ;)

    rappion, check this :o)

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    • Russ said...
    • Alumni
    • 26 Jun 2006, 01:08
    For what it's worth, I only add friends I actually know ;)

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  • At least I know it's not personal. ;)

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    • mnoo said...
    • User
    • 26 Jun 2006, 08:35
    I'm kind of distressed about the way friendships will work as well (myspace stylee, yuck) and purely from a selfish point of view. A lot of people seem to add me as a friend (probably following up from different sites I'm on etc) and I very much like the fact that I dont *have to react to this* if it's not someone I really do know and want to add myself.

    This new system will mean that I'll have to trawl through all these 'friends requets' and then feel guilty about declining friendships, when it doesn't really bother me one way or another if someone adds me, just as long as I don't *have* to add them... So in beta mode, I already have a frustratingly long queue of 'friends request'. Uhh.

    I think this feature is just an unnecessary stress producer on a site that really should be about the *music* not the power games of who wants to be my friend and who doesn't.

    Busy Making Other Plans
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  • We REALLY tried to make our old friending system work, stubbornly sticking to it even when (as mentioned), most other social sites went with the request/accept model. So where did the idea for changing to it come from? Our users. I suspect It's not the kind of thing you would bring up on the forums because it might open yourself up to ridicule, but we receive TONS of support emails and private complaints about "User X added me to their friends list and they're really creepy and I can't take my face off their page please help me it's making me want to leave Last.fm".


    I also prefer the old system of friendships alot, mostly for the reasons mnoo mentioned. But I also understand the users complaining about random people adding them to their friends list. A nice solution might be the old system with a simple extra feature that allows you to remove yourself from other users' friendlists. I remember a page on the old site where you could see all the other users that added you to their friendslist but you didn't. How about just a simple extra button next to each user that allows you to drop the non-mutual friendship.
    Might be a bit more complicated but this way everybody should be happy and it's not even copied from myspace ;)

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    • popgurl said...
    • User
    • 26 Jun 2006, 12:40
    I still don't see why as at least an interim way to have it both ways you can't give people these options:

    "User X wants to add you as a friend"

    a. decline
    b. accept without making mutual
    c. make mutual.

    No more creepy friends, but those of us who like being bookmarked and bookmarking can do it. How does this not fix your problem while letting the rest of us who are fine with one way friending keep doing it? Things can be consensual without being mutual.

    If you decide "friendship" MUST be mutual, PLEASE impliment the alternative at the same time, even if it means postponing the implimentation of mutual friendship. It just seems like a BAD idea to take away something many people like, value, and use with the promise of a future replacement. What happens to those relationships in the meantime? Too bad? It's an upgrade?

    If you get email complaining about this, please consider that you are NOT getting that ton of email from people who have no issues with the way it works though there might be more of it if you did, and you are not hearing from us in the forums either if it's not been brought up there because we haven't had the chance to respond to it.

    p.s. please note from a usability standpoint that someone in this thread did not notice what was front and center in the dashboard -- if that doesn't suggest overwhelming clutter...

    Edited by popgurl on 26 Jun 2006, 12:42
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  • Re:

    Quoth mnoo:
    This new system will mean that I'll have to trawl through all these 'friends requets' and then feel guilty about declining friendships, when it doesn't really bother me one way or another if someone adds me, just as long as I don't *have* to add them...
    Would it be possible to have an "autoaccept" option in the settings for people who don't care if somebody befriends them? But then if such an option was in place, it would be useful to be able to see the "initiator" of the friendship (whether the friendship request was from yourself or the other user) in the Friends list.

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