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What do you think about this?

 
  • What do you think about this?

    I've read this long time ago, I never really knew what to think about it. With the latest news from Rome, Benedict calling the Evangelic Church a Sect, this came to my mind again.

    Now, without giving any statement, I place this article here, to hear your oppinions.

    Next & Last Pope, Catholism, the Great Whore

    I know this is a very delicate issue, able to bring a lot of trouble to the Christian "Unity", nonetheless it's not just some cheap conspiracy theory and I'm interested in many people's oppinions.

  • Come on this is something really serious...

  • Sry don't have time to reply right now, probably won't untill next week. Sorry! :)

  • I know it's a big document, but still I don't really understand why none replies to this or just ignore this!?

    We'll see.

  • This part of revelations is discussed over and over again link for instance and it always reminds me of the factions fighting in communist splinter parties (with which i'm a bit better familiar than christian factions).

    But let's assume the article you link to is correct and the RCC is evil and the Pope is the devil.

    Which actions would you yourself base on this conclusion?

    How do these differ from the actions you would take otherwise?

    I'm guessing now, but I guess that these actions are not very different.

    But is you are a roman catholic, agreeing with the conclusions of the article, might mean a big change.
    But now let me ask you this:
    do you think articles like you linked to (or teh discussion i linked to) wil really convince roman catholics?

    I don't think so. Telling somebody that their church is a 'whore' might just act to angry him/her. To me this is so obvious that I donot for a moment think the article is meant to 'warn' roman catholics.

    In fact in my view its telling the protestant readers that they are so right.

    So maybe the article is no 'conspiracy theory', i find it rather Self-Righteousness, which is evil

    Dus.
    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 19 Aug 2007, 21:43
    If anyone or anything tries to tie a world event to Bible prophecies, NEVER believe it. Such stories have ALWAYS been wrong (although from Bible prophecies that have already come to pass we can clearly see how consistent they are)! A war with Russia involved in it is not armageddon, nor is any other war; the social security number is not the number of the beast; Israel is not going to become holier than any other country at some point in time; Hitler, Mussolini, Bush or Saddam were not the Antichrist. 9/11 or any other great event does not announce the end of all things. Likewise, the Bible does NOT talk about the papacy!

    For now, I will limit myself to the first part of the article to give a little bit of explanation.
    ...we unlock Bible prophecy by using the Bible as its own interpreter.

    I use the same technique to unravel biblical principles. It means that if you are trying to understand the spiritual meaning of a passage, you look for the spiritual meaning of the words in ALL the passages where the original language uses the same words. After having evaluated the different contexts wherin the words can be used, we finally find the meaning of the words that fit the context of the passage. Then you come up with a conclusion. As long as this conclusion is not in contradiction with any other statement from the Bible, you can hold on to it.

    I've found that this is not at all the way they proceed for the article. They aren't looking for spiritual truth, but they are trying to tie a passage to the real world. It also seems to me that they are satisfied with one single verse that may tie the passage to a real-world event they are kind of anticipating. After they quote from Revelation 17, they state:

    A woman always symbolizes a church in the Bible, in this case the whore – an impure church.
    And a beast has always signified a kingdom or state that persecutes God's people.


    A widow, wife or prostitute are also women. The article says a woman always symbolizes a church based on Jeremiah 3:20 and 2 Corinthians 11:2, which are really talking about "a wife", in the context of being spiritually married to God. This is not a meaning that can be applied to just any woman in the Bible.
    On the other hand, prostitution is almost invariably associated with unfaithfulness to God, and has been applied to everything in the Bible that is equivalent to churches (Israel, Jerusalem, ...). Only because the woman in Revelation 17 is called a whore, we have our clue that this is talking about churches. Churches in general that is! Not just the Catholic church or the pope!

    In revelation 12 we see a woman symbolising God's Eternal Church, who really is the faithful bride of Christ, not to be mixed up with the prostitute from Revelation 17. This woman flees into the desert (wilderness!), as she was commanded to (see also Mt 24:15-16).

    I can go on like this for a long time, but as for this post I'm just going to add that a prophecy goes a step further than finding the spiritual meaning. You must take into account all the additional information that you can gather from the parallel language in other books (like Daniel and Ezekiel), which I have not see them do for that article. In point 3. of this post are a few examples of this.

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 21 Aug 2007, 23:36
    Triliader said:
    I know it's a big document, but still I don't really understand why none replies to this or just ignore this!?

    You may have guessed by now that I wasn't ignoring this. It just took me so long before the Bible started to make sense to me on this subject. Let's all start reading: the Bible uses many words to talk about the church(es), as there are: temple, house of God, sanctuary, prostitute, vineyard, Jerusalem, Judah, Zion... That a woman could refer to the church came initially as a surprise to me. However, women of Zion or women of Jerusalem are also clear references to the churches.

    A woman could also mean anyone of us, either or not going to be married to Christ. Most of the time, more detail is given: expecting mother (waiting for Christ's coming), widow (convinced Jesus is dead), ...

    This looks like a subject we should do some serious research on. Jesus knew what this was all about, He even wept over it. I hope I can give some good examples of how to better understand this subject, for Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one (Hebrews 9:24).

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 26 Aug 2007, 20:57
    Ezekiel 9:3-6:
    Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it (Revelation 7:2-4, Revelation 14:1-5) ."

    As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary (1 Peter 4:17)." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 26 Aug 2007, 22:06
    Matthew 24:45-51:
    "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master (Jesus) has put in charge of the servants in his household (kingdom of God) to give them their food (the Gospel) at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns (Matthew 24:17, Matthew 10:27). I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time (1 Thessalonians 5:3, Matthew 24:36),' and he then begins to beat his fellow servants (like the article did with the pope) and to eat and drink with drunkards (Revelation 18:2-4). The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3). He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Hell).

    1 Thessalonians 5:4-6, Matthew 24:42-44

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 31 Aug 2007, 21:44
    The previous few posts are an example of how the Bible unravels its own prophecies, in this case the prophecy in Jeremiah 25:15-29.

    Here we also see Jerusalem and the towns of Judah being the first to drink of the cup of God's wrath and the churches referred to as "the city that bears His Name".

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 5 Sep 2007, 21:29
    Mark 13:37 (Song of Solomon 5:7)

    All I said in this thread is also still true.

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 9 Sep 2007, 20:59
    2 Thessalonians 2:1-12:
    Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come (Matthew 24:4-5). Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction (Daniel). He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God (Matthew 24:15-16, Isaiah 14:12-14, Jeremiah 51:34).
    Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work (1 John 4:3); but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy (Revelation 20:2, Revelation 12:9) by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders (Matthew 24:24-25, Revelation 19:20), and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion (Romans 9:31-33) so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned (Hebrews 4:6, Mark 10:28-31, Luke 13:25-30) who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Matthew 20:1-16

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 23 Sep 2007, 19:09
  • I'm regurarely reading thanks, not to easy for me to understand this all, after all in a foreign language, which is in such issues very tricky.

    Thanks for the replies in advance.

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 24 Sep 2007, 19:25
    Change "New International Version" into any language/version available and press the update button...

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 24 Sep 2007, 19:42
    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 30 Sep 2007, 13:25
  • @Triliader: if you do a google search for the Bible in German or something, I'd think a site would pop up with the translations :). Most other languages have such a website.

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 7 Oct 2007, 00:44
  • Nono, biblegateway is multilingual so that's fine ;)

  • Yeah.... I tried that with Norwegian? :P The last translation was from 1930 - I can't say I understood much :P

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 14 Oct 2007, 19:37
  • There are other 'organisations' far worser than the RCC. I think the RCC is misguided though.

    All IMO of course

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 24 Oct 2007, 20:15
    Genesis 19:15-26:
    With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."

    When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, "Flee for your lives! Don't look back, and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away! (Mark 13:14)"

    But Lot said to them, "No, my lords, please! Your servant has found favor in your eyes, and you have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can't flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I'll die (Psalm 11). Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn't it? Then my life will be spared."

    He said to him, "Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of. But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it." (That is why the town was called Zoar.)

    By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. But Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.




    Luke 17:26-36:
    "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all (Genesis 7:23).

    "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling (Revelation 13:16-17), planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

    "It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left."


    Matthew 11:24 -- Revelation 11:8

    • wimme said...
    • User
    • 26 Oct 2007, 21:19
    2 Timothy 4:3:
    For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

    Luke 14:24:
    I tell you, not one of those men who were invited will get a taste of my banquet (Matthew 22:11-13).

    Luke 14:34-35:
    "Salt is good (Matthew 5:13), but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
    "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

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