How do I ... ?

 
  • How do I ... ?

    How do I ...accept a request to become a new member of my group which I restricted to Owner Approval?

  • On the front page it will tell you if you have any requests pending. Just click on it and it will take you to the Members page, where there is another link to take you to pending members (or just scroll to the bottom of the page).

  • ah! I think I understand why I'm having trouble: this potential member may have not yet made a demand to join my group, so I do not see any membership request as you stated.

  • Yes, I've had people tell me they joined, when in fact they hadn't. Either they forgot, or maybe their request didn't get through to Last.fm or something.

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 20 May 2008, 17:16
    Me too. Mostly it's because they just don't know how to join groups. It's a 2 stage process and many people overlook the second stage I think, clicking the join link, but not seeing the join button or the apply for membership button on the next page. Last.fm FAQ doesn't tell you stuff like that, yet I feel silly starting a topic (how to join this group).

  • I think it's more of a problem if you have a lot of stuff in your sidebar, because it puts all your sidebar stuff (i.e. "Description") on a new main page and then puts the Join button at the bottom. So they have to page down to even see it.

    I'm not sure why Last.fm feels it's necessary to do it that way. They should just leave the sidebar where it is, and put the Join confirmation on a new main page, with nothing else.

    I guess it's a leftover artifact from when people were only writing short descriptions in that area, without all the graphics and charts and everything.

    Your topic wouldn't work (for long anyway, unless you kept bumping it), since Last.fm no longer displays sticky threads on the front page (even when they have new messages).

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 20 May 2008, 19:41
    I noticed that, that's rediculous and annoying that sticky threads don't display on the front page. You say it puts the description stuff on a new main page? I've never noticed that, I've never noticed a link for (page 2) on a group's (overview) page. Maybe it's because I see things differently, I'm blind and use a screen reader. Well when I want to join a group I just use a keyboard shortcut like control+f to find a text string, type the word (join) in the box and hit enter and it takes me to the first instance of the word (join) on the page. If I had to do it the hard way I'd have to page down sure. Well should I put something at the top of my description saying (page down to join this group) what do you think? For my group about Mexican music I have a very large description and overview text as well with lots of links to wikipedia articles and tags, and it's in 3 languages to boot.

  • There is no link to a page 2. However, when you click on the Join link on the front page, it takes you to a second page, where it displays everything in your "Description" box, and then puts something like "Are You Sure You Want to Join?" at the bottom. On this group you'd almost definitely have to page down, because the flag counter graphic is quite long.

    As for whether you should put something at the top to tell people to click the Join button on the second page, that's totally up to you. I don't, purely for aesthetic reasons, but if you think it's necessary, I'm sure it would help. If you're able to, I'd put red color tags around it or something like that, to make it stand out. If you need help with that, I can probably help you. I use a Firefox extension for color tags, but can tell you the codes it generates.

    I just noticed that Owner Approval groups are apparently broken. Or at least this one is. I have three pending memberships, but no notification on the front page. They show up on the Members page as pending applications, but there are no Accept, Reject and Ban links underneath them, so they're stuck in limbo.

    I started a forum topic about it here.

  • I just abdicated the group to someone else and had them abdicate it back to me, and now it's working fine.

    Weird.

  • weird!

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 21 May 2008, 17:56
    Thanks. I'm thinking about something like
    Please page down to join this group.
    I also know about
    dark read
    but if you have the code for a red that would stand out more than those two choices I'd greatly apreciate it. I actually found a hex color chart online, but it does me no good because the hex values are in the color they represent, with no textual color names. I did however find a page with all the color names accepted in BBCode
    here.

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 21 May 2008, 18:09
    This group also has a flag counter. I can easily change the perameters of mine just by editing the URL, I've already done it once because a prospective member wouldn't join my group because the counter had 3 columns. If you would tell me what the best perameters are I'll change all my counters. I think I could even change the colors if I had the code.

  • Your first red text looks great (better than dark red). You could further make it stand out by making it bold. If I remember correctly, the bold tags have to go outside the color tags, or it won't work.

    Well, let me try it.

    Yeah, that works.

    Your flag counter is too wide with the flag labels. You need to set it to labels=0, or go to 1 column. I had the same problem when I tried to use labels here.

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 21 May 2008, 20:55
    Got it. I gave it a shot. If you wouldn't mind please take a look and tell me if it looks OK/makes sense. I debated on putting the message about paging down in all 3 languages all in a row or at the top of each description in that language. I did the latter, but if it would look better or make more sense the other way let me know. I also got rid of the flag counter labels.
    La Música Tradicional de México
    Thanks so much for your help you rock!

  • That looks great! My only suggestion would be to move the flag counter to the bottom, so that it follows your descriptions. But that's a personal preference; I'm not trying to tell you how to run your group.

    Also, the "page down" reference might confuse some, because it makes no reference to paging down after clicking on the "Join this group" link. So they may not know you're talking about the second page. If they page down on the first page, they're going to be lost.

    No matter how you do it, it's probably going to be a little confusing for newbies. It's just one of those little Last.fm quirks we have to put up with, because it's all worth it in the end.

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 22 May 2008, 01:16
    OK thanks again. I'll fix that in the morning. I put the flag counter at the top of the description thinking that noone would notice it at the bottom of all that stuff. Should it be below even the part with the playable tags? For myself, if I want to quickly find the flag counter of a group I just use the find command and type more/ in there and I go to it right away lol.

  • The flag counter thing is a personal preference, and I don't want to get too far into that. Just keep in mind that it's also going to be on top of your second page, after they click the Join link.

    If you want it at the top, another option would be to put it in the Overview section. You could make it wider, but shorter, using more columns, and even add back the labels. You could also center it, using the align tags. Addicted to Last.fm uses it that way, albeit without the labels.

    For this particular group, I not only have the flag counter, but also have an overall number counter underneath it, at the bottom of the sidebar. I also use their pie chart graph as the overview image.

    Every one of my groups look a little different, though. I try to strike a balance between what fits the group, what I think looks good, what my visitors would like, and what is user-friendly.

    Again, I'm more than happy to help you in any way I can, but I don't want to push my own personal preferences on you. Last.fm would be be boring if everyone's group looked the same anyway.

    And no matter what you do, some are going to like it and some won't. For example, the first comment I received on the flag counter overview graph was negative, but others have reacted positively.

  • _Tarkus_ said:
    I think it's more of a problem if you have a lot of stuff in your sidebar, because it puts all your sidebar stuff (i.e. "Description") on a new main page and then puts the Join button at the bottom. So they have to page down to even see it.

    I'm not sure why Last.fm feels it's necessary to do it that way. They should just leave the sidebar where it is, and put the Join confirmation on a new main page, with nothing else.

    I guess it's a leftover artifact from when people were only writing short descriptions in that area, without all the graphics and charts and everything.

    Yeah last.fm should fix that by either 1) Making it a one stage process by having it add directly into the group or 2) Having a javascript drop down like they have to recommend and/or tag artists, albums, song and *gasp* groups. Like this for example.

    Animutation and Youtube Poop
    Science

    10100.0101ᵩ = 1010₂ = 101₃ = 22₄ = 20₅ = 14₆ = 13₇ = 12₈ = 11₉ = 10₁₀ = A₁₁

    1000010.010001ᵩ = 10100₂ = 202₃ = 110₄ = 40₅ = 32₆ = 26₇ = 24₈ = 22₉ = 20₁₀ = 19₁₁

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 22 May 2008, 21:11
    Thanks again for the advice. I've centered the flag counter, but I think I'll leave the labels out and the columns at 2 since one of my members doesn't like 3 columns. I also changed the wording of the short tutorial on how to join the group. I hope it makes more sense now. I like TheLight6's idea about Having a javascript drop down. I know why they do it as a 2-stage process, you might click the join link accidentally when you didn't really want to join. Orkut does the same thing with groups and friend requests, but the way they do it is awkward and the uninitiated or the inattentive could easily miss it. Some sites even have dialogue boxes where you have to hit OK or cancel before you complete an action, Yahoo webmail does it if you try to delete all messages in a particular folder in one fell swoop. Oh and about all the extra doodads like the hit counter, I have trouble believing that if you just put a line of BBCode in your group, a remote site can monitor visits to that group. I can't help thinking that it's necessary, for example, for a visitor to my group to actually click my flag counter link itself to be counted. In that case, I can't expect someone to click all of these counter type links, so I just want to have one so I know I'm counting everyone who clicks with that one and not dividing the count between this one and that one. I also choose ones I can read when I go to their pages. The flag counter and my niftymaps visitor map on my profile page are both easily readable by my software, but most hit counters I've visited obscure the number of visits from me. I've also seen some other visitor maps that I would never use because they're inaccessible to me, only showing the graphical map and not giving me a list of locations of visitors like the niftymaps map and flag counter do. Of course when I read a URL for a flag counter in the forum itself, all I can read is (more/fc5Q1) for example, but of course I know what that is now. I'd love to know why that is though, and how. I've read character by character the code and can't figure why that's the only text displayed. It's only the back half of the URL. Some weeks ago I tried to get a URL to display both an image and a text string, but it didn't work that way.

  • Yeah, I have no problem with the two step process to join. I only have a problem in the way it's implemented. The javascript idea is indeed a good one. But even a simple second page, leaving the sidebar alone, as I suggested earlier, would be an improvement.

    Like I said, the current system is probably an artifact from when group descriptions were generally short and sweet, and without graphics. The purpose being, making sure you know what the group's about before confirming your desire to join.

    But now often times, groups don't even have a description; they use that space for graphics, charts and other things. If someone has a group called "The Beatles" does it really need a description anyway?

    People don't have to click on the flag counter graphic to be counted. When you visit the page, it gets your location from your IP address when it delivers the graphic. It then probably stores your IP address in a database, or maybe uses a cookie, so that it doesn't keep counting you (at least until your IP address changes). That's pretty much the way all counters work, though regular counters will count you again after a certain period of time, even if your IP address stays the same (unless you have them blocked somehow).

    The reason why you can't decipher most hit counters is because they're actually images. I use StatCounter here, which does offer a text option, but I think it only works in HTML. I can't imagine how it could work using BBCode.

    • kb7clx said...
    • User
    • 23 May 2008, 00:53
    Yeah that's the problem with BBCode, you can have a graphic or you can have alt text, but not both like you can with HTML. Oh yeah, a lightbulb goes on in my head, the graphic gets there from the image URL imbedded in the code, so there's contact with that site from your computer. Now I understand how the counter site gets your IP. Smacks forehead and says duh. I've noticed that with my visitor map it shows my location anew about once every few days, yet sometimes I see some other location repeated 3 times in a row, or there'll be 2 hits from the same country and state/province in a row, but they will have different cities, or one will show as unknown. It happens so often it can't be coincidence. I guess someone visits my page, then a few minutes later they visit again, but their IP has changed and they register as being in a different city. I always register as being in Hayes Kansas though I'm over 100 miles from there, but the FAQ on their website says that's to be expected in some cases.

  • I register in California, though I live in Nevada. It probably has something to do with the fact that I'm using wireless broadband from Sprint.

  • Or it could be that your IP is being connected faster from a redirected location, hence some people live in America but use the IP from locations such as Nigeria or Taiwan (or such) so they are rare and fast, what are the odds of someone being banned or not allowed to go in a site due to their IP being from there, the FPS is very low as well, making it durable for almost anything.

    Point being. About one year ago when they were updating the website they had a minor mistake made from one of the fellas and he accidentally took out the 'join' button on groups (Haha) so people were a bit frantic and paranoid.

    mature yourself,,,,,realism
  • You'll all be pleased to know that the new beta site (only available to subscribers) does indeed use a javascript popup to confirm that you want to join a group.

    Unfortunately, it didn't work on the one group I tried to join, but the beta site is only a couple days old, so there's going to be a lot of bugs for awhile.

  • The shout box invitations are working splendidly. I'd say I have at least a 50% success rate getting people to join, and probably 75% getting people to at least visit the group. Since I've had some visitors who didn't join, it could just be that they decided not to, but I'm wondering if they might have clicked the join link without confirming. I didn't get a clear picture from this thread about what to do in that case. Would something like this be appropriate and aesthetically pleasing within the group description?

    "After you click the join link, remember to confirm it by clicking "Ok" at the bottom of the page."

    I certainly don't want to confuse anyone, so
    1. Is a message like that necessary? and
    2. Does it make sense?

    If you loved Melinda Doolittle during Season 6 of American Idol, or if you discovered her because of her new album, "Coming Back to You,", join us.
    Melinda Doolittle
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