Russia. Are they good or bad?

 
  • Born-Of-Fire said:
    All I'll say about the Russian government is this: They have directly funded Al Qaeda. That is where the terrorists get a good portion of their weapons. Look at it this way, the AK-47? Soviet made, RPG Launchers? Soviet made, Ammunition? Soviet made. The Soviet movement is alive and well, adn leaders over there are actively trying to make the country Soviet once more. They hate America enough to directly fund Terrorism. I'm sorry, but no matter what way you cut this, its bad. No matter how you feel about any war is Middle East, I will tell you this much, whatever you think of Iraq there is a strong Al Qaeda presence over there, they are also in Afghanistan and Israel. There are Al Qaeda cells in America and we know where they are. But the liberals won't let us take them out, even though we have concrete evidence that they are plotting treasonous acts of terrrorism against the US.

    Little tangent there but moral of the story? Russian Government = bad

    Disclaimer: Russia is ok, its the government thats bad. Just fyi


    AK47s are made all over the world - their great strength is that they are a cheap basic, reliable and easily manufactured weapon, suited to manufacture in countries with a limited manufacturing capacity. So they may not even have come from Russia. Even if they do, that isn't evidence that Russia's government knowingly supplied them - American made weapons turn up in conflicts all over the world without the American government having provided or funded them. Another possible answer may be the endemic corruption in Russia, which enables weapons made there to be sold illegally with little control by sellers who are motivated purely by money, and don't care about their intended use.

    I can accept that Russia holds America in some emnity, and would be happy to see the USA undermined, but your points don't offer any evidence of funding of Al Qaeda. and we should remember that it was the USA that created the Afghan Mujihadeen during the war of the 1970s/80s, and provided billions in weapons and support. And Al Qaeda grew from the militias in that war. At the very least you must regard that policy as ill advised.

    Your point about the liberals approach to terrorists in the USA reads like an assertion rather than an example. What are they doing to obstruct justice, and what would you recommend?

    As a final point, it should be noted as a legal fact that the only country to have been convicted by the World Court of the United Nations for supporting terrorism in a foreign country is still the USA, for its actions in Nicaragua in the 1980s. That's is a matter of public record - which you can google and find out more about.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 23 Nov 2008, 19:06
    To the person who says that Russia has supported "terrorists" - what about the USA supporting Saddam Hussein? What about the USA creating the Iranian revolution in 1953 that overthrew the Shah? What about the USA's interference in establishing dictatorships in Latin America to further its own interests?

    On a separate note, I disagree strongly with the USA's foreign policy in recent years, and I do not agree with their vilifying of Russia. I believe both countries should find a compromise on issues like the missile defense system in Poland and the Ukraine, and to commit themselves to nuclear non-proliferation, which is in the interests of both nations and the entire world on a whole.

    I am proud to have voted for Obama. I think he and Medvedev can open up dialogue and diplomacy. I am hoping for it.

  • Russia and USA huh. Tough call here. In my humble European opinion, neither is good. USA and Russia both do some bad shit like invading countries and such (Im not a pro on this issue, just speakin out what I do know and do think) - although USA makes their campaigns sounds like they're fighting for "the greater good" and "interest of USA citizens", Russia mostly covers theirs stuff up. Both governments are of course spoiled and corrupt. Russians have always been more openly agressive, while American government pretends to fight for freedom and happiness of everyone. =)

  • Re:Russia. Are they good or bad?

    seish said:
    I'm from Bulgaria, which really wants to be America's bitch officialy, but has always been Russia's bitch, local mafia all have Russian bosses and shit. I started hating Bush after they attacked our neighbors Serbia which are the only Balkans country with a backbone. I've been to the US, mostly Boston, and I really love the country, I hope Americans wake up and don't let people like McCain and Obama waste their country for the beliefs of zionist jews. I finished a Russian school and Russians I studied with were great people too, most jews I met are also decent people.
    Is the world so easily exploited by bad people? I believe that even tho everyone has flaws, the average human being is a very nice person. What can I do as a single person to help make this world a safe and better place?

    Just for the record, Clinton attacked Serbia to deter interest from his Monica affair.
    Anyway, here is an eyeopener for you, and Bulgaria may be next:
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4Cu-K17vE

  • gubashlep said:
    Saakashwili is surely a freakin' nazi who ruthlessly killed thousands of innocent..

    FYI: Saakashvili is Jewish, how can you call him a nazi !?

    gubashlep said:
    ...Russian forces do the same thing as in 40-s - we're stopping facism..

    Sooo that is how you "call" invading small countries, like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland and Pearl Harbor type bombing attacks on Hungary and Romania???

  • Manowar1 said...
    Sooo that is how you "call" invading small countries, like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland and Pearl Harbor type bombing attacks on Hungary and Romania???

    lol
    if you don't know anything real about the subject, don't post ))

    Are you ready to live in this reality?...
  • OMG what a topic!
    Let`s speak about USA. USA is good or bad?
    How can you ask question like that?
    All that russian people want is peace and happy life.YES they want it!

    Don`t belive it? Ok, visit Russia and meet russian people.
    US press like to write about Russia some stupid things, and US people belive it.
    US have NO democracy - there is total lie in press and on TV.
    My country has a great history, great culture and great people.
    I am proud to be russian.

  • eleonoravm said:
    OMG what a topic!
    Let`s speak about USA. USA is good or bad?
    How can you ask question like that?
    All that russian people want is peace and happy life.YES they want it!

    Don`t belive it? Ok, visit Russia and meet russian people.
    US press like to write about Russia some stupid things, and US people belive it.
    US have NO democracy - there is total lie in press and on TV.
    My country has a great history, great culture and great people.
    I am proud to be russian.

    No, you wont make me join Russian army! :D

  • Don`t forget that US bobmbed Japan ( Hiroshima ) , they attacked Iraq and Yugoslavia, Korea, they divided Serbia into parts, they are at war now, with Afganistan,they also want to put their military bases in Poland !
    They are agressors.
    But they need excuse for their acts, and they tell everyone that Russia want to attack them! It`s adroitly! Great work!
    Also they tell us that they fight for the democracy. Oh, perfect! They want to put democracy through the death, wars, and outrageous lies.
    And someday world will understand all this things:God is my witness!

  • Alteregoist

    russian army doesn`t need a guy like you, baby.

  • like I was interested in joining a bunch of brainwashed thugs, moreover those who have urge to write in alternative alphabet.

  • MaximalDamage said:
    Manowar1 said...
    Sooo that is how you "call" invading small countries, like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland and Pearl Harbor type bombing attacks on Hungary and Romania???

    lol
    if you don't know anything real about the subject, don't post ))

    Hey little communist kid from Russia, what do YOU know about history? Just the propaganda and lies of your government.
    You cannot deny history!!!

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 27 Nov 2008, 17:16
    Hey, guys, you're all talking about government and history, but what about people?

  • First, I must confess that I didn't read all of what you've said here, I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of time.
    Second, I must say I live in Russia.
    Third. As I see this, there are no "good" or "bad" countries in this world unless there are no countries infected by fascism and personality cult. There are both reasonable and ignorant people - there are ones who understand that we must unite against global problems and ones who think that the conflict won't be solved without a nuclear war. There are people who think that Russian government does everything correctly (they just haven't taken our new foolish exams and haven't been to our hospitals), and someone who thinks there is slavery in Russia and so on. Both are wrong. But some people realize that we are different, we think differently about the world and we shouldn't make war out of that. A new cold war is impossible.

    oh Manowar1, don't be so ignorant, I beg you. First, that were Japanese not Russians who bombed Pearl Harbor and that were Americans not Russians who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Second, in 1945 Russian army freed all the countries that were conquered by Germany and turned to one big concentration camp. And if Estonia still wants to be an independent fascist state, we should let them do that but first warn that they'd better not start a world war.
    and one more thing: I have nothing to do with communism. As Otto von Bismark said "if you want to build communism, choose a country you don't pity." So I don't want it to be my country anymore. 30 Stalin's years were enough for us I think.

    such a huge post. but I hope I'll be understood.
    Peace! That's what matters

  • of course, Manowar1, of course
    i'm a little commi kid from Russia
    and all of the russians drink vodka all day and night
    also on the streets of every our city you can easily meet a bear
    you are so pity man

    Are you ready to live in this reality?...
  • MaximalDamage said:
    of course, Manowar1, of course
    i'm a little commi kid from Russia

    Yes I said that due to the kommy -style flat out denial you have shown.

    MaximalDamage said:
    and all of the russians drink vodka all day and night
    also on the streets of every our city you can easily meet a bear
    you are so pity man

    I did not write this, you did.

    I actually KNOW a lot about that history, so if you have anything specific to say or explain, do it, otherwise keep your idiotic kid remarks to yourself.

    Edited by Manowar1 on 28 Nov 2008, 11:36
  • leechoflife said:
    First, I must confess that I didn't read all of what you've said here,....
    oh Manowar1, don't be so ignorant, I beg you. First, that were Japanese not Russians who bombed Pearl Harbor and that were Americans not Russians who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    How can you call ME ignorant when YOU did not even read it all? I was referring to a Pear Harbor STYLE sneak attack (= attack without declaring war) in June 1941 against Hungarian cities of Kassa and Eperjes with fake Romanian planes by the Russians. Romania was also bombed. Stalin's plan was to have the Romanians and Hungarians fight each other, but failed. This justified the Hungarian and Romanian entry into the war against the USSR. Very conveniently the Allies swept this info under the rug for obvious reasons. I DO have tons of information on the subject so do ask. The whole research, dates, maps, photographs, investigations, interviews, even the names of the dead.

    leechoflife said:
    Second, in 1945 Russian army freed all the countries that were conquered by Germany and turned to one big concentration camp.

    Excuse me, but the Russian army "freed" all those countries just as much as the US army "freed" the Iraqi people! Also, why the people in those 10 or so Eastern European tiny countries desperately fought against the "liberating" Red Army??
    And after this "liberation" why did the USSR "leave" 300-400 thousand troops in several of these little countries - for 45 years?
    Do you want to hear about the atrocities of the invading Red Army?
    Was it a fight against "fascism" when the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia (1968) and Hungary (1956)??
    Do NOT answer with the favourite "you don't know anything" statement. I posted questions - so enlighten us with your answers. (And this applies to MaximalDamage too.)

    leechoflife said:
    And if Estonia still wants to be an independent fascist state, we should let them do that but first warn that they'd better not start a world war.

    The emphasis is on independence. Hmm, how would they start a world war?

    leechoflife said:
    and one more thing: I have nothing to do with communism.

    I grew up under communist rule, so sorry, but I notice the underlying result of 80 years of communist propaganda brushing off in your and MaximalDamage's comments.

  • How can you call ME ignorant when YOU did not even read it all? I was referring to a Pear Harbor STYLE sneak attack (= attack without declaring war) in June 1941 against Hungarian cities of Kassa and Eperjes with fake Romanian planes by the Russians. Romania was also bombed. Stalin's plan was to have the Romanians and Hungarians fight each other, but failed. This justified the Hungarian and Romanian entry into the war against the USSR.
    well if USSR hadn't done that, Germany would have done just the same.

    Excuse me, but the Russian army "freed" all those countries just as much as the US army "freed" the Iraqi people! Also, why the people in those 10 or so Eastern European tiny countries desperately fought against the "liberating" Red Army??
    f-f-fought? in 1945? destroyed and starving? in German concentration camps and gasenwagens? just how? it was salvation! Bulgaria (and other countries) warmly welcomed Russian troops!

    Do you want to hear about the atrocities of the invading Red Army?
    FUCK YEAH, I DO!

    Was it a fight against "fascism" when the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia (1968) and Hungary (1956)??
    Oh no, it was NOT. it was an influence area conquering. When Soviet and American influence areas crossed, there was a conflict like Caribbean and Vietnamese.

    The emphasis is on independence.
    The emphasis is on fascism.
    Hmm, how would they start a world war?
    just like Nazi Germany did.

    Oh please, let's not talk about propaganda. The propaganda was on both sides. I'm aware of how a Soviet role in the WWII victory is underestimated in American history books.

    And after all this: if this topic was caused by what was happening in the "reign" of Stalin (his real surname was, btw, Jugashvili) 70 years ago, a topic entitled "Germany. Are they good or bad?" would be more likely to emerge here, wouldn't it? Therefore, the cause is not the invasion to Poland, for instance, during WWII. Its cold war and bilateral propaganda that still makes people divide nations into "good" and "bad".

    There are some differences and contradictions between us, there's nothing special and unusual about that, we're just different. But there must not be a confrontation. Just because we're all people and we all (I hope) do everything for freedom and peace all over the world.

    and not all Russian people are communists.
    and none of Russian people eat black caviar.
    and I've seen a bear only in the zoo.
    and I don't drink vodka at all.
    and I don't wear an earflapped fur hat.

    break the stereotypes and face the truth - we differ from what we used to be, we differ from who you are but it doesn't mean that either we or you are bad. We're just different, and it's great, isn't it?
    peace :D

  • leechoflife said:
    How can you call ME ignorant when YOU did not even read it all? I was referring to a Pear Harbor STYLE sneak attack (= attack without declaring war) in June 1941 against Hungarian cities of Kassa and Eperjes with fake Romanian planes by the Russians. Romania was also bombed. Stalin's plan was to have the Romanians and Hungarians fight each other, but failed. This justified the Hungarian and Romanian entry into the war against the USSR.
    well if USSR hadn't done that, Germany would have done just the same.

    That is a really piss-poor excuse and you know it. It is like "do you mind if I shoot you now, because maybe someone else will shoot you in the future?"

    f-f-fought? in 1945? destroyed and starving? in German concentration camps and gasenwagens? just how?
    No, not them, those were only in Poland. I am talking about all the folks in those little countries who were shooting at the Red Army! My father, grandfather and many other relatives were fighting for freedom. The Red Army outnumbered us 10 to 1, but still it took the Red Army 2 years to win. A very poor kommie performance, nothing to be heroic about. How about the USSR's Winter War Invasion of Finland? How come there were 1.5 million Russian casualties in Finland. The Finns only had 35 thousand regular troops. Another heroic Red Army performance.
    If it was not for the help of the USA, the Germans would have whoopped the kommies' ass. And NOBODY welcomed the Red Army, except for the local kommies, less than 1%. People said to the invading Russians: "Davaj davaj, jobb volt tavaly" (=come come, but it was better last year). When someone sees a large number of people together, he says: "They are so many as the Russians".
    After the Russians hauled their asses out of these small countries circa 1990, all Russian "objects" (like Stalin, Lenin statues, Krasnaja Zvjezdas etc) were promptly destroyed. All Russian/kommie origin city names, street/building/company names were changed. Does this show you the "love" of Russia there??
    In 1956, the Hungarian revolutionaries 1st whooped the Russians' ass, so much that to invade the country, the Russians needed to use 4 times as many tanks than Hitler needed to invade France. I actually own one of the rifles which was taken from a Russian soldier by a Hungarian revolutionary and all "HATED" Russian symbols were machined off. It is featured on this webpage: http://www.sunblest.net/gun/Mosi56.htm

    Do you want to hear about the atrocities of the invading Red Army?
    FUCK YEAH, I DO!

    There are whole books written about it. Samples: The millions of invading Red Army soldiers were let "loose" in the cities and villages. They raped any female 10-70 they found. They shot all military-age males they found. They had the injured people carried out from the hospitals, put them in rows and ran over them with tanks. The lack of the Russians intelligence and the overwhelming brutality what survivors remember. The Red Army took the intellectuals (teachers, doctors, scientists) to their own concentration camps (gulags), almost none returned. From the military prisoners maybe about 5% survived/returned home.
    In the small village of Csengele, there are 14 unmarked graves of marauding/raping Russian soldiers who were individually captured during the act and beaten to death by the husbands and sons - who prepared for this in advance. So at least some of the guilty bit the dust.

    Was it a fight against "fascism" when the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia (1968) and Hungary (1956)??
    Oh no, it was NOT. it was an influence area conquering.

    What fuckin right Russia have to conquer? You have absolutely no regard for the sovereignty's of a country?

    Hmm, how would they start a world war?
    just like Nazi Germany did.

    Seriously, how can Estonia start a world war? Are you aware the tiny size of that country compared to the size of Russia?
    How come that when Hitler invaded the West half of Poland and Stalin invaded the East half of Poland, Hitler was "bad" and Stalin was "good"??
    Why did the "anti-fascist" Red Army temporarily stopped in Warsawa during the Ghetto Rebellion and waited until the Nazis finished off the Jewish rebels?
    How come that native Russians (actually whole army units) switched sides during WW2? I have a friend who was actually in one of these units.

    Just because we're all people and we all (I hope) do everything for freedom and peace all over the world.
    You seem to be very "selective" who gets freedom and peace, as you have shown your approval of invading small countries - regardless of what reasoning you use.

    and not all Russian people are communists.
    and none of Russian people eat black caviar.
    and I've seen a bear only in the zoo.
    and I don't drink vodka at all.
    and I don't wear an earflapped fur hat.
    break the stereotypes and face the truth

    I did not post stereotypes, however YOU did, claiming that the 10 or so small nations the USSR attacked pre-WW2 were "fascist".
    And Russia's acts in Chechnya and Gruzia are not supporting your "peace" message.

    Propaganda is when you (or another poster) said that Europe was a fascist concentration camp before the Russians "freed it".
    Kommie propaganda especially pisses me off - hence my response.
    In 75 years or so Communism killed more people worldwide than all other ideologies combined during the last 5000 years.
    Once again: You Russians did not free us little nations, you Russians enslaved us and sucked our resources dry for 45 years. Do you understand this or do I have to keep repeating it?
    "Better dead than Red"

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 30 Nov 2008, 07:59
    I wouldn't call them exactly good. I should hate them for what they did to my country, how they to deported people to Siberia and brought in and replaced them with russians, now 1/3 of our population are russians thanks to that, how they violated our rights, how they tried to "russify" us, they fucked up my country and all I can say is that I thank god the soviet union is gone now. And I understand it's in the past now, but I still see Russia as an agressive country with a big ego, they still desire war and to control the world. I don't dislike russians though, just the country itself.

  • omfg.
    you seem to be a hard one.
    Who is fucking brainwashed here? What do you know about the "lack" of Russian intelligence? Don't you distort facts saying that gulags were concentration camps?
    The Red Army outnumbered us 10 to 1, but still it took the Red Army 2 years to win.
    who is "us"?
    The millions of invading Red Army soldiers were let "loose" in the cities and villages. They raped any female 10-70 they found. They shot all military-age males they found. They had the injured people carried out from the hospitals, put them in rows and ran over them with tanks. The lack of the Russians intelligence and the overwhelming brutality what survivors remember. The Red Army took the intellectuals (teachers, doctors, scientists) to their own concentration camps (gulags), almost none returned. From the military prisoners maybe about 5% survived/returned home.
    some interesting resemblance to the American troops in Iraq.
    What fuckin right Russia have to conquer? You have absolutely no regard for the sovereignty's of a country?
    I wasn't talking about the sovereignty if you still don't understand. What I'm getting at was that two superpowers were dividing the world. And it's no wonder that countries geographically close to superpowers were forced to support them. It's like an imperialistic Russian-Japanese war in China. Imperialism sucks, but it existed and worked on both sides.
    What fuckin right Russia have to conquer?
    and this is said by a man who lives (judging by the profile data) in a country that invaded another country on another continent and dropped a nuclear bomb to a country that was already to capitulate. quite interesting.
    Seriously, how can Estonia start a world war? Are you aware the tiny size of that country compared to the size of Russia?
    Actually I'm aware of the tiny size of all countries compared to the size of Russia.
    What I'm getting at: Estonia is a fascist country and we can see this.
    You seem to be very "selective" who gets freedom and peace, as you have shown your approval of invading small countries - regardless of what reasoning you use.
    so do you.
    In 75 years or so Communism killed more people worldwide than all other ideologies combined during the last 5000 years.
    Actually a great part of them were 27 millions of Russian people. I agree that communism is not a good idea at all, especially totalitarism we saw at the middle of the XX century. And I mean more Hitler than Stalin, although both are the century's most terrible villains, along with Musollini.
    I did not post stereotypes, however YOU did, claiming that the 10 or so small nations the USSR attacked pre-WW2 were "fascist".
    i didn't claim anything like that, it's calumny as it is.
    And Russia's acts in Chechnya and Gruzia are not supporting your "peace" message.
    let's cross the T's here.
    Chechnya in 1990s was a self-proclaimed terrorist republic, one of the Bin Laden's Muslim terrorist organisation divisions. It's Chechen terrorist leaders who organised Beslan, Nord-Ost and other teracts in Russia. Russian troops fought terrorists who wanted an independent terrorist state.
    South Osetia and Abkhazia are the victims of wrong administrative division in the USSR - in fact, they didn't ever want to be in Georgia, especially after Saakashvili became a president. Everything started on 080808, with a rocket attack of Tskhinvali with Ukrainian rocket mounts used by Georgians.
    you know, there are a lot of Russian citizens in South Osetia and Abkhazia, and that's why Russia could be the only power to fight the Georgian aggression in South Osetia. It's the information American media tries to hide.
    Once again: You Russians did not free us little nations, you Russians enslaved us and sucked our resources dry for 45 years.
    man, for your information, we didn't need any resources from East Europe in 1945, didn't need them in 1991, don't need them now and won't ever need them. They, however, won't live without our electricity, our oil and our gas.

    And yeah, you've completely missed/ignored my main statement - this thread wasn't caused by the Stalin's reign, it was caused by the cold war that still has its effect on people and makes them say "these guys are good and these ones are bad".

    they still desire war and to control the world.
    I must say that personally I don't desire war.
    the only nation that still desires war and the world domination for now is America.

    btw, I regard the name of the topic as silly and stereotyped.
    It can't be that all 141 million of us are good. And it also can't be that all of Russians are rogues and criminals. We're all different. So there's no answer to the topic's question and won't ever be. Fortunately.

  • I Love Russia.

    All governments are shit. Propaganda comes from every side of the field putting people from different countries against each other and making war "acceptable" or a just cause.

    • Zmayne said...
    • User
    • 5 Dec 2008, 10:17
    the government seems very aggressive and corrupt. but the same can be said about america or any other corrupt government. its too bad go vernments affect and shape the perception of their peoples.

    where the hood heroes at
  • Perhaps for the first time, I find myself with some agreement with Manowar here.... Most of the facts stated are a fairly reasonable interpretation of what actually happened - even if I don't personally agree with all his interpretations. I'm not sure there's too much point in quibbling about details on the rest - but I do think that the supposedly beneficial role of the USA is a little overstated in the post war period. Let's agree that Stalin was a monster, and many of the 'Russian' crimes detailed in this thread can be laid at his door. But Russia is bigger and more complex than just Stalin alone, and Russian history cannot be reduced to him and his deeds and legacy.

    But most of this discussion is about events in the past - wasn't the original post about Russia today?

  • leechoflife:

    You are either The Brainwasher or the "fuckin brainwashed" here.
    The observation of the "lack of intelligence" of the Red Army soldiers in 1945 came directly from many witnesses I talked with.
    Gulags were (are?) forced labor camps with a small survival rate, referred to as "death camps" by the survivors, similar to the concentration camps. For example: From the 250000 Germans captured at Stalingrad in 1943, only less than 5000 survived. That is less than a 2% survival rate, is it lower then the rate in the concentration camps?
    By "us" I refer to the non-Germans who were fighting against the invading Red Army during 1944-45. These were Finns, Estonians, Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Ukrainians and others, even Russians. The Red Army outnumbered the defenders of non-Communist Europe by at least 10 to 1, it is a shame that it took 2 years for the reds' victory, nothing to be proud of.
    Explain how the US atrocities in Iraq justify the Russian atrocities in Europe 60 years earlier? Look at it this way: If your neighbor kills his wife, does that justify you to kill your wife?
    And it is you who do not understand sovereignty of a country. "Geographical closeness" does not justify invasion, even if you are a "superpower". And Estonia should be allowed to have any type of government they want, even fascist. You do not have a right to tell them what type of government they can have. Which part of this you do not understand?
    And do not blame me for the Allied nuclear bombing of Japan, my family was on the Axis side at that time. However Russia was part of the Allies and also invaded Japan for more landgrabbing.
    What 27 million "Russians" you are talking about as casualty of communism? The 20 million Ukraininans starved to death? The 1.5 million Kazakhs, Turkmens, Gruzians etc frozen to death while invading Finland?
    Gubaslep said: "Russian forces just protected ossetians and abkhazians of being killed by Saakashwili, so don't shit about some imperialistic stuff. Russian forces do the same thing as in 40-s - we're stopping facism" (sorry, I thought you posted this and I assumed I am arguing with the original poster). Anyway, to that I posted: "Sooo that is how you "call" invading small countries, like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland and Pearl Harbor type bombing attacks on Hungary and Romania?" because I did not like Gubaslep's derogatory statement about these countries.
    Chechnya: They most likely would NOT be terrorists if Russia gave them that tiny chunk of land.
    Osetia/Abkhazia: I would not have said anything as long as Russia limited the invasion to free those "countries". However, when the Russian forces entered Gruzia, that is an unjust invasion.
    man, for your information, we didn't need any resources from East Europe in 1945, didn't need them in 1991, don't need them now and won't ever need them
    >>Now this statement really PISSES me off because it is a FUCKING LIE.<< Hungary had one of the largest Uranium deposits in the world. All what was mined was shipped to the USSR and is now refined and in the Russian nuclear warheads. Hungary had after France, the 2nd largest bauxit (Aluminum ore) deposits in all of Europe. For 40 years all of this went to the USSR. The payment? "Free Protection" from the "Imperialist West" by the almighty USSR.
    On the occasions when the USSR actually paid for products or services to the providing Warsaw Pact countries, it was paid with highly inflated Rubles or with oil/electricity, also at inflated exchange rate. The USSR also destroyed the Warsaw Pact countries' economy by forcing certain industries and not allowing others (like nuclear plants) in certain countries - forcing industrial dependence on each other, but mostly on the USSR.
    After the 1 million+ USSR troops left the Warsaw Pact countries, they left behind buildings and land destroyed with toxic and nuclear waste. Cleanup would bankrupt many of these countries.
    A final question about your quoted statement above: If the USSR did NOT need any resources from these countries, WHY did they stay for 45 years?? And do not bring up the US being in Japan and Germany, the US did not control their economy for 45 years. [That said, I do not support the issue of US troops stationed in foreign land]. Why does Russia have to "copy" unjust acts of the USA?

    I never said "they still desire war and to control the world" so I will not reply to that issue, nor to the title of this thread.

    My only beef is with your and other posters statement boiling down to:
    - calling little countries fascist and call it justifiable invasion during 1930-45
    - claiming that the invaded countries were "freed" and the Russians were "welcomed"
    - claiming that the USSR did not take products and resources from the invaded countries for little or no compensation
    I can accept the past and move on, however I will not accept distorting and lying about it.

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