Russia. Are they good or bad?

 
    • seish said...
    • User
    • 26 Sep 2008, 03:08

    Russia. Are they good or bad?

    I've been trying to understand the world, doing my best to filter unbiased truth from bullshit.
    However its tough work and I hope someone's willing to share links and knowledge about the subject and save me thousands of google link clicks.

    My personal impression so far has been that people are pretty much black or white about the subject. If you don't like the US/Israel( the way they do politics) then you support Russia. Or at least thats what I made out from the internet.

    I think that Russia protecting Ossetia(sp?) is justified even tho they wanted to separate from Georgia. All of their population want independence and are Russians by heritage, so obviously they can't live with being part of nato.

    I don't like what Russians did in Chechnya however, and it feels to me that they are almost as bad imperialists as the US.
    Basically it feels to me like USA, China and Russia really want to boss the world around and are bickering over who gets to do that.
    But I don't know the facts, thats just a feeling based on little information.

    Can you guys help me make up my mind? Tell me what you think. Enlighten me on what Russia's been doing since WW2 as well as some correct information on the cold war and stuff.

    A few useful links so I can get educated enough to take a confident stand on the subject.


    I'm from Bulgaria, which really wants to be America's bitch officialy, but has always been Russia's bitch, local mafia all have Russian bosses and shit. I started hating Bush after they attacked our neighbors Serbia which are the only Balkans country with a backbone. I've been to the US, mostly Boston, and I really love the country, I hope Americans wake up and don't let people like McCain and Obama waste their country for the beliefs of zionist jews. I finished a Russian school and Russians I studied with were great people too, most jews I met are also decent people.

    It really makes me sad that the governments of so many countries don't serve the majority of people in them, but a number of malignant people's interests instead.

    Is the world so easily exploited by bad people? I believe that even tho everyone has flaws, the average human being is a very nice person. What can I do as a single person to help make this world a safe and better place?

  • Edited by chiaroscuro2 on 26 Sep 2008, 08:24

  • Russia is another imperialist regime as USA, China, European Union.....This country also attack in Chechenia, but what would do USA if the Dakota(Sioux) declared its independence? In the Osetia's case, Rusia go to defender the people with Russian passport from the attack on 08.08.08 from Georgian tanks(1.700 peopled killed) and a good excuse for help the separastis in Abjasia (which the most of population as in Osetia adopted the Russian nationality) so now Osetia and Abjasia must received the same that Kosovo.

    • Mediaba said...
    • User
    • 28 Sep 2008, 15:05
    Agreed.
    Not everyone knows, why there's so many russian people in Osetia and Abhasia. They are native russian provinces, but they were added to Georgia by Stalin in 1931. They don't really belong to Georgia. When idiot Saakashwili attacked them the russian intervention was matter of time. As You said, Russia is another imperialist regime as USA, China, European Union but this intervence was justified.
    That's why I'm sick of people, who flies there and tell bulshit only to kick Russia. People like some presidents (f.e. Ukraine, Poland...).

    p.s. @seish: Bulgaria maybe is licking America's ass now, but take a look, what is happening in other countries like Czech Republic or Poland. That's even worse.

    Omnia Vanitas
  • Watching international politics makes me wonder how people who apparently never got out of their sandbox-bickering days can actually be allowed to be in charge of anything but their left testicle - and even that's pushing what I think they're fit to handle.

    Thing is, most people are pathetic excuses for sentient beings, which of course leads to ridiculousy unfit people ascending to power in a democracy. The price we pay for being relatively free to do whatever we please, I guess.

    Anyway, NATO and Georgia clearly provoked Russia, and whoever didn't expect there to be repercussions is clearly a tool, not that this excuses what Russia did - it just goes to show both sides are equally irresponsible.

  • Just to clear up a few things, South Ossetia and Abkhazia are not native Russian provinces, but ancient regions of Georgia. Abkhazia has been populated by Georgian and other Caucasian tribes since the Colchis / Iberia era, the two being ancient states of Georgia. Southern Ossetia used to be known as Samachablo, a historic region of Georgia. Read Wikipedia if you don't believe me, I'm not making this up.

    And Stalin's granting of autonomy status to the regions is much different from annexation.

    Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia as they stand now are internationally recognized regions of Georgia. Not Russia or any other country in the world has the right to overthrow local governments there, invade and destroy innocent civilians' homes and property, distribute their passports on that territory, fuel separatist regimes, and force residents out of there.

    I'm not for Russia, US or NATO, or any other "empire" annexing / controlling / choosing the fate of Georgia or its regions - I'm for the country's independence.

    As for Russia being good or bad - that's up to you to decide and conclude. There are always two sides to a story, no matter how right or wrong one side may be.

    Good luck and peace.

    • Mediaba said...
    • User
    • 30 Sep 2008, 16:21
    Hmm... maybe they aren't native Russian provinces (I used bad word), but
    they aren't also historical Georgian states!
    If You want clear up things, base not only at one source. But if You want from wiki:
    Abhasians and Osetians are nations. During the history, they struggled with lot of another nations: turkish, georgians, russians, mongols, greeks...
    They were enslaved by turkey, russia, and georgia. Finally, in 1931 Stalin and Beria added abhasia and osetia to georgia.
    I think that abhasians and osetians (especially these from south) have more in common with russians that with georgians.
    The best decision now would be to leave them alone and let make them independent. That's why Russian intervence was justified (im my opinion). Of course Russia probably didn't do that for free... :) Like every imperialist regime :)
    I think that Abh. and Os. will never become real independent. Sad but true.
    sorry for my english, I don't speak it very well.

    peace

    Omnia Vanitas
    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 1 Oct 2008, 18:51
    First of all, I should introduce myself as a person who lives in Russia, so I'm going to describe the things they are seen from here. I don't support Putin or Medvedev, but I support their decisions about Ossetia.
    In Russia I couldn't find people who anyhow support Georgia (I mean the Saakashwili team), even people who hate their country and the government are against. Saakashwili is surely a freakin' nazi who ruthlessly killed thousands of innocent ossetians when they were sleeping. The majority of ossetians were against being a part of Georgia since 1991, when the Soviet Union ended it's existence.
    In western news there always been reports showing the "city of Gori, ruined by russian forces" and that is a complete fake. Everybody who had ever been to Tskhinvali would immediately recognize that the city in the report is actually city of Tskhinvali, ruined by georgian forces. That's the best evidence of what the real situation is.
    Russian forces just protected ossetians and abkhazians of being killed by Saakashwili, so don't shit about some imperialistic stuff. Russian forces do the same thing as in 40-s - we're stopping facism, Saakashwili made genocide upon ossetians (even upon his relatives - his cousins are ossetians) and russian authorities just protect these nations, as you can see neither South Ossetia nor Abkhazia are parts of Russian Federation now, so it can't be called imperialism.

    If you have any questions don't refuse to ask me by private message.

  • You will never agree with any country 100%, only individual policies.

    In his case, Russia was right to protect S. Ossetia, they were attacked by Georgians regardless of the imaginary temporary political border which says they're on the same side. America coming to the "rescue" is just their side of the deal since Georgia is helping America occupy Iraq.

    The strange thing is, a similar incident happened with the First Gulf War. Iraq invaded Kuwait, and since they have business relations with the US they came to Kuwait's rescue. America cited humanitarian reasons.

    This time however, America completely ignores the fact that Georgia attacked S Ossetia citing Georgia's "sovereign borders" as legitimate. This administration can only see in back and white not by accident, but by choice to secure American business interests.

    Also, LOL @ "zionist Jews"

  • We should just nuke 'em all commies.

    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c('')('')
    This is cute bunny. I will kill cut cute bunny into little pieces if you don't join Electronica and start listening to Alaaaaaaarrrrmaaaaaaaaa!!!
  • Russia is awesome!!! We rock!!!

  • Russia is bad. They abuse their people and have done since the revolution. You may think the US etc is the same but in the US people can express their dissatisfaction about the government, in Russia they cannot. The people of South Ossetia were given passports so Russia had an excuse to invade Georgia. I'm not saying that other countries are much better but the poorer people of Russia have a horrible life.

    Curses! foiled again
  • As an American who doesnt like America, and the things it does. I dont Russia is such a bad place.
    I actually heard that all the news that was broadcast in the US about the Russian invasion of Georgia was false, that the Georgian government was abusive to their citizens, and that the Russians had seen this and said that it was wrong and stopped it, and the Georgian citizens thanked the Russians for helping.

    My opinion on the subject is that the government and news had broadcast this to keep the fear of Russia, and other Communist countries, in the hearts of the American people. Fear keeps people from seeing the truth, Fear is the weapon to keep people in support of your cause.

    Or im wrong, who knows.

  • From Russia with Love)

    Oh, my God) Forget about the Soviet country, just like we forgot about it:)
    P.s. We do not have bears and the south is very warm:))

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 6 Oct 2008, 13:32
    i hate russian.. she is communist and nasty country..

  • XxXxDdDdXxXx пишет:
    i hate russian.. she is communist and nasty country..

    Get da fuck out from here dumb! What do u talking about?! U never been in Russia!!! U know nothing about this country. Shut up matherfucker!!! I shit on you and ur stupid mind!!!

    "My only fear of death is comin back reincarnated."
  • Russia in principle do not need love. No one asked. Just do not be afraid of so much of us. After all, we have not yet been touched, we did not do that. So history shows.
    And I would like to say that it would be cool if the president of the United States became Barack Obama.
    Peace:)

  • Simbirella пишет:
    Russia in principle do not need love. No one asked. Just do not be afraid of so much of us. After all, we have not yet been touched, we did not do that. So history shows.
    And I would like to say that it would be cool if the president of the United States became Barack Obama.
    Peace:)


    По-моему Обама такой же мудак как и все остальные претинденты на пост президента США. Хотя если из всех зол выбирать меньшее, то конечно же Обама молодец.

    "My only fear of death is comin back reincarnated."
    • abss said...
    • User
    • 8 Oct 2008, 13:26
    There was a time when there was Soviet Union, there was also a time when georgian Stalin was a ruler and so on. These were bad times for most. And these were times when USA was no better, but as allways were better at propadanda. Later there was a time when USA had their hands layed on Russia because of this Jelcin (or smth. like that, don't know hot to spell it). These were good times for USA to do anything anywhere and bad times for Russia and power balance in the world. Now I see proud and rising Russia and warmongering as allways USA with such debts that they need a new counter, but magically having enought money to wage wars, keep military bases in farmost corners of the globe and organize color revolutions near Russia. Is Russia good? Maybe yes, maybe no, but Russia now is way better than USA with all lies, patriot acts, wars, corruption and shadow governments.

    • seish said...
    • User
    • 8 Oct 2008, 15:08

    Obama

    Its not just Obama vs McCain

    Google and the media are really contributing to conditioning people into believing they have no chance to make a difference. There is a trend going on suggesting smart people don't vote
    because they know everything is already decided, but I think that not voting or not opposing certain policies is like agreeing to whatever happens in your country, which is just as bad as voting for those same people you hate.

    People like Putin(he's behind Medvedev anyway), McCain, Bush etc. are frightening because they have their ides about shaping the world to their vision of it and would go to any extent to do so. But at least in Putin's case his goal is to improve Russia, while the guys that rule/will ruse USA act like Hitler wannabes and just want to fuck up the world, as you said - "all lies, patriot acts, wars, corruption and shadow governments."

    • dpg88 said...
    • User
    • 8 Oct 2008, 16:20
    агггггр бойтесь суки......ось зла форева !!

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 8 Oct 2008, 16:25
    Во бля уроды! Не были в Россия а бля что-то еще говорят!

  • First i want to say i am latvian(Latvia is a country in baltic states) myself, but my native(first) language is russian. I freely speak russian, latvian and english, learning german and thinking about japanese :-) I believe i am very open minded and im trying to observe conflicts(and not only conflicts, governments of countries too) from my own point of view, without being possed by any of the sides :-)

    We can make new forum and call it "USA. Good or bad?" and it still will be some kind of demagogy, as you cant say is the country good or bad. We can talk about theirs goverments, about theirs behavaour and actions.

    In my opinion it would be better if Obama take Bush's place. Time for somebody open-minded and full of ideas to take the throne :-)

    Cheers, Ilja

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 23 Nov 2008, 07:32
    All I'll say about the Russian government is this: They have directly funded Al Qaeda. That is where the terrorists get a good portion of their weapons. Look at it this way, the AK-47? Soviet made, RPG Launchers? Soviet made, Ammunition? Soviet made. The Soviet movement is alive and well, adn leaders over there are actively trying to make the country Soviet once more. They hate America enough to directly fund Terrorism. I'm sorry, but no matter what way you cut this, its bad. No matter how you feel about any war is Middle East, I will tell you this much, whatever you think of Iraq there is a strong Al Qaeda presence over there, they are also in Afghanistan and Israel. There are Al Qaeda cells in America and we know where they are. But the liberals won't let us take them out, even though we have concrete evidence that they are plotting treasonous acts of terrrorism against the US.

    Little tangent there but moral of the story? Russian Government = bad

    Disclaimer: Russia is ok, its the government thats bad. Just fyi

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