What does ''non-idiomatic improvisation'' mean?

    • oaeoeao said...
    • User
    • 3 Mar 2005, 22:37

    What does ''non-idiomatic improvisation'' mean?

    I thought it meant that a music which was composed wholely improvised could exist without being associated with another/other musical idioms such as jazz, rock, punk, dub, soul, etc. etc. 'Non-idiomatic improvisation' is a way of understanding music that is created by individuals who improvise sound and do not expect to fall back on any particular function of organized meaning... It is a way of playing music....

  • i don't think the term non-idiomatic improvisation necessarily implies that music of the sort can't be associated with a particular genre, but rather that there is no concious effort in the creative process to steer it towards genre convention. even though a musician might perform with no inclination to stay within predetermined stylistic guidelines, they may still create something which can be loosely categorised as "jazz" or "rock" or what have you

    • oaeoeao said...
    • User
    • 17 May 2007, 21:35

    Get on board

    If one thing is for certain, I have not been listening to 'European Free Jazz' very much. But this is unsound because its first premise is false, one thing is not for certain.

    Things I like in the place of music are; poetry with antique rhythms, the way gold looks on human skin, balloons getting their air let out in a squeaky way, flummoxing the troupe, organ music of any type other than pointless, crisp apples, defining triangles as plain figures in which two angle equal the sum of two right angles and watching tape reels turn.

  • My two cents

    The exact meaning of non-idiomatic improvisation is probably too elusive.
    One could argue that the sole purpose of the term "non-idiomatic" is to separate some improvisational practices stating that if there are improvisational practices coming from or moving towards all kinds of music (academic western contemporary, jazz, pop/rock, all sorts of ethnic expressions…), you should have some space "reserved" for those who are not coming or going to any particular idiomatic practices.
    The presence of improvisational practices in all musical "languages" in all times is a given fact, so one is left with the possibility of using a certain idea of Freedom, and that's when people start talking about "Free Improvisation" (which is different from Free Jazz as far as the point of origin concerns, apparently).
    Why not use "Free Improvisation" as a substitute for "Non-Idiomatic Improvisation"? Well, some people just have a problem with the notion of freedom, and would argue that one is never really free… but the main issue probably has to do with all the Non-Idiomatic Improvisation that is NOT Free, in the sense that there is a set of rules (implied or written) or some structure that limits the improvisational structure. To such improvisational practices you couldn't call "Free", as they choose not to be "Free". They can fall in several other categories, genres and sub-genres or they can use this "non-idiomatic" thing. I mean: they can choose some "idiom" where the structure or set of rules would fit, or they can assume that they do not fit, neither in itself can be called, an "idiom"…
    Probably this discussion would be of interest for some linguists that could use these notions to discuss what are languages, how they differ, what are slangs, regionalisms and pidgins…
    To a lot of improvisers, these things are either self-evident or of no use at all.

    My two cents.
    João Martins

  • I think the word "jazz" in the title is meant to refer to improvised music more than anything else, especially juxtaposed with "non-idiomatic." I think a counter of two would just be "improvised music from europe" or something.
    I don't know i didn't create the group, right?

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 17 Oct 2010, 20:39
    I think ALL music is tied together in a spiritual way. I firmly believe that IMPROVISED music is soul speak. It's mainly getting one's EGO out of the way and letting the wonder that we are come through the music.

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