Anti-indie; The problem with indie hipsters

There has never been a form of musical elitism as contrived as that of the indie hipsters.

In the past year, Napster's full potential was finally reached as the entire MTV generation made the transition from radio rock/rap over to the current triarchy of hipsterism: emo, indie, and hardcore. The underground has become the mainstream. Just years ago you'd get funny looks for listening to unpopular bands; these days, everyone under 25 is competing to know the most unpopular bands, and the more obscure they are, the better. Nowhere, of course, is there a shred of genuine passion for music, as the kids are as blinded by fashion as they ever were. Your average Joanna Newsom fan would undoubtedly be listening to Limp Bizkit today, if that was still were the fashionable thing to do.

We end up with a really sad situation where even though kids have the entire world of music at their fingertips, the only thing they're looking for in their quest for new music is another band that will compliment their carefully calculated image of a young, in-the-know hipster. Never has such a mass effort been put into finding new music that you don't even like.

As fashion wins out over music, all hipsters look for specific aesthetics in their bands. At the bottom of the hipster hierarchy reside emo and its fellow -cores. While the emotion in these genres may be contrived, -core is at least honest about its obsession with scenesterism. -Core does not claim to be anything other than self-absorbed, shallow, and fashionable.

Indie rock, however, is not nearly as honest about the confines of its genre. Indeed, perhaps because indie rock is at the top of the hipster hierarchy, indie is obsessed with proving its worldliness, and is obsessed with proving that its perceived superiority to -core is indeed justified. As such, Indie rockers are not content to be merely labeled scenesters (as -cores are happy to be); indies want to be seen music lovers first and foremost. In their strained and unconvincing to attempt to prove that they truly, really do love music, indie rockers feel the obligation to listen to genres other than indie even if they have no ear for them.

Unfortunately, however, this attempt at musical diversity suffers from an inherent flaw: having diverse taste in music is about being able to appreciate multiple aesthetics in music, and indie kids are only able to appreciate a single aesthetic - that is, the indie aesthetic, the aesthetic of fashion. This is abundantly clear in examing the indie kid's awkwardly pathetic attempts to branch out of indie and appreciate non-indie rock; if you look closely, the indie kid's non-indie listening is limited to meaningless subgenres of subgenres that happen to comply to the indie aesthetic.Indie kids need special 'indified' versions of other genres in order to render them listenable, as they simply can't handle those same genres in their raw, pure, (and unfashionable) forms.

Indie kids can't take trance, so they listen to electroclash. They can't take gangster rap, so they listen to abstract hip hop. They can't take doom metal, so they listen to drone metal. They can't take neofolk, so they listen to freak folk. Etc etc.

In brief, the indie rocker can only explore music in the context of fashion; for supposed 'music lovers', indie rockers are without a doubt the most limited music fans in existence. Unfortunately, however, the sheer number of hipsters is so massive in 2007 that their influence has left its deteriorating mark on virtually every genre. As unpleasant as the situation is, in a way I feel for these kids: what must it be like to automatically reject all music with genuine passion and sincerity in favor of self-concious detachment?

I find it ironic that by bringing their culture mainstream, they are in effect taking away the whole 'indie' aspect from indie culture. Morons...

Nice post by the way.

It's a sad day for indie fans pre-indie explosion. They have nothing now, and everyone hates them.

Indie should be tucked away in a small corner. Then it would be respectable because it would be sticking to it's guns. Mainstreaming indie can make us only laugh at them.

Those poor souls.

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Indie hipsters only listen to indie because they know it's "hip". They also think it's an alternative to the mainstream sound, but what they fail to understand is that indie is the one thing that's most mainstream of all today. Perhaps even more than Hip-Hop & RnB, because it evolved from a niche to a huge vanity trend. And I really, really hate that trend. A lot of the hipsters also HAVE to dress in a specific way, to make everyone notice that they are trendy indie rock listeners.

When it comes to retro, the indies tend to listen to bands that focus heavily on lyrics, perhaps even more than tunes/melodies. That creates a fake musical credibility, and that's the reason why some alternative bands of the 80s (ex: THE CURE) and especially shoegaze-bands are so popular today. But as I see it, an important reason to why they get that much cred for their lyrics, is that their tunes simply aren't good enough.

And: As stated earlier in this thread, hipsters can listened to anything that's said to be indie or indie-related. Example: electronic sub-genres, like the french Ed Banger-scene. Justice (which is quite cool) is much closer to Sash! and ATB musically, than what it is to indie rock, but they listen to it anyway because it is "right" to do it. But techno/dance/trance that has got no credibility: that's just bad and shallow to the hipsters.

Also: I read an article in a norwegian newspaper about the indie phenomenon. A norwegian had studied the german indie hipsters for some years as a part of his master assignment in sociology or something. I could recognize a lot that was stated in the text, and the person that wrote it, clearly experienced encounters with a lot of image-oriented, if not image-fixated people that fits some of our descriptions in this thread perfectly.

So, how can one recognize a hipster? Well, they would for one make sure that you know what they are like. The clothing, the haircut, the places they hang around. But the most striking thing is something I've noticed about the bands/artists they listen to (this was also mentioned in the article): is that when a hipster tells you what kind of music he/she listens to, the person will probably list a number of indie-related artists or bands, perhaps a few older bands (like The Beatles: as I see it a decent band, but absolutely loved by all indie hipsters), but always one or two artists that are completely different and with less cred. That could be The Backstreet Boys, Scooter or Christina Aguilera. Why? Because it obviously is right to do (according to the article and interviews it was based on). It gives credibility, and could also give an impression of a certain variety even amongst a hipster's taste.

That was long enough I think (the article should have been on the net as well, but unfortunately it was only in the paper).

very interesting. but we shouldn't forget one thing: it's not the first time that something that was underground turns into mainstream.

and what is much more important: we shouldn't forget that pages like last.fm help to turn underground music scenes into commercial mainstream.

and something more i like to add: i think that most of the people don't listen to music because of passion. they don't even know what passion is like or what it feels to be passionate. i think music is a tool that is used to create one's identity. people think they like what they listen, but that's wrong - they like what other people think of them because they listen a specific kind of music.

boy, i got lots of chaotic thoughts about that in my head. Oo

i don't know i just think they are annoying and look silly ?!?!?!

fucking genius.

you spend so much time worrying about other people you have no time to worry about yourself (i agree with you) but am just saying. who gives a shit about whats the newest trend, why would you start a group to talk and monger about something stupid like the newest trend or what music people listen to these days. its life. it tends to happen here on earth. yes, people fall into fads and listen to shitty music.. yes, things turn mainstream and people worship bands like that..oh well, sucks for them. lets stop getting all cool and analytical and try to point a finger and produce a legitimate reason for why it happens, or crime they committed, or argue over which genre is which. its senseless.

"Mass movements are always so unhip," said the great Legs McNeil.

This is just like the rants I heard years ago when Punk broke into the big time, again, and the real "Punks" were disillusioned with the "scene."

I must say though, I would not mind seeing some obscure artist I am into blow up into the mainstream. I would love to go to a party and hear Gram Parsons instead of Lil Wayne!!! What the Hell is wrong with that? Its no fun singing alone and not having someone to share your music with. Unless of course you are a despicable human being who gets a sense of self satisfaction from being the only one so enlightened to know of some damned obscure band. I for one, try to abstain from any such douchebaggery.

Do not take any of what I said too literally. I haven't slept in a while. Just to clarify, this is paper writing/coffee induced sleep deprivation and not the coke/meth scumbag variety.

To me, indie is not (and has never been) about independent music; its about - as its been stated above - being hip.
I especially recognize and agree with the following:
"We end up with a really sad situation where even though kids have the entire world of music at their fingertips, the only thing they're looking for in their quest for new music is another band that will compliment their carefully calculated image of a young, in-the-know hipster. Never has such a mass effort been put into finding new music that you don't even like."

its like mass psychosis. and i believe that people should be "independent" in their minds (came out wrong there ^^) and find their own ways - not follow some general principles of how to be, look & think. i dont believe in mass movements or conformity.
and all those people who search true meaning and truth in the indie movements world, are searching in the wrong place because to me, the indie movement world is the opposite to the real world. its a world where people (not only teenagers - there are loads of adult indie people too, and thats why its so dangerous) who dont want to deal with reality end up and waste their lifes in a mass psychotic dream.

ultimately, what indie stands for is conformism, anti-individualism and anti-free thought (anti-thinking). its a world in which all you have to bother about is being hip.

4) It's not at all physically moving which at least something as silly to me as dance music or most rap makes you at least move a little, which is good for your heart/body, makes you feel good, etc...
5) Since the singers tend to "sing" in this odd monotone passionless voice and the music tends to always keep a painfully slow tempo I don't see how anyone can be emotionally moved or how it does anything to really stimulate the brainwaves as other music can.
6) There seems to be a huge over-emphasis on simply just lyrics which anyone could interpret a million different ways, that doesn't mean they're deep. Of course lyrics can be powerful but music goes beyond much more than words, people who are obsessed with lyrics usually don't understand song composition so they like lyrics because they can be laid out right in front of them and can be exactly read word for word, whereas the music itself can't be

i totally agree!

damn...i just recently started looking into indie...had no idea wat i was getting into. :O.
my two cents are....
most indie bands i've heard might not be as musically "mature" and their arrangements and compositions might not exhibit that either...but u don't necessarily need complex arrangement and compositions to make a good song...
i think it's about how the music makes you feel...
but...:O :O
had no clue abt this whole indie culture