Katy Perry

A brief point, I had to google Katy Perry to know that she was the one that came out with the I Kissed a Girl and I liked it song... shows you how much I actually follow pop culture. For as long as I've been alive, men will gladly watch two girls kissing.

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Celebrity issues aside, I think this is a societal problem and it should be addressed between parents and their children. It's up to the parents to instill whatever values they feel a child should posses. Even at the age of 23, I still ask myself is this something I'd be proud of if my parents knew I was doing this? There's always going to be a little bit of your conscience that has been in some way formed by your upbringing and the influence or lack there of that your parents had. In my opinion, I think sexual exploration is something that is just going to happen if they're curious to begin with. Young teens, hormones a buzz, it's only going to be natural that they have questions and concerns about what is going on with their bodies and what that means directly to their sexuality.

If it's going to be a phase for the young girls, great. They'll get their lesbian kiss out of the way and just brush it off as not for them. If they're still confused about it, they'll simply be bisexual. I think that is something that most people don't actually ever grow out of. Sexual exploration and knowing who you are, is really a part of life and your own life's experience. I really don't see this as any kind of societal moral decay.

Now, when it gets into older girl's and women territory then it's really a completely separate issue. They're old enough to be making the right and wrong decisions, publicly if they want. College frat house parties were fraught with everyone cheering when two girls started kissing. Why are they cheering? It's entertainment, it's really as simple as that. Now, why are the girls doing it? There's a myriad of reasons that the simple male mind can't understand about women and their choices to do things. If I had to take a guess though, it'd be public acceptance, popularity, having a fleeting moment in the spotlight. Or maybe even to try and make a genuine connection with another person in completely the wrong setting. When lite beer and cheep alcohol are pumping through your veins (and destroying your liver) I don't think anyone is really making the right decisions.

You get to a point where you say that you're upset that this music is being played for kids and teens which makes this song wrong. With that, I disagree because what are the alternatives? The song is banned from radio, artists censor themselves or the parents actually have a frank and honest discussion about what is not ok to listen to? I don't see the first two as an option. If that's what is popular, whatever radio station will play it. If parents don't want that kind of message reaching their kids take that station off the dial. Artists censoring themselves isn't going to happen and shouldn't happen. Things like the FCC have destroyed many things in my opinion, and people that violate and openly accept the FCC fines have always been more provocative because they're taboo. If there wasn't an FCC I don't think things like Howard Stern would have had as much a pull aside from their own popularity. Censorship inflamed things like his radio station and drew more attention to it. If you don't like it, don't listen and just ignore it. I wasn't allowed to listen to Stern until I got my own car. He was having lesbians kissing and porn stars deep throating sausage before I even knew what that meant.

I think peer pressure is a powerful tool. The cool kids in school were always the ones that didn't have a lot of parental oversight. Parties, drugs, alcohol those kids were havens for the stuff. Oddly enough, the richer the kid was it tended to be the less control the parents had in their life. If girls want to dress that way, fine. Let them learn about their bodies and what they feel will attract the opposite sex. When they find out it all sends the wrong message, and they're not actually going to get out of whatever man is attracted by those kinds of clothes what they wanted. They'll change their clothes, either that or their first trip on a subway or being out on the streets of a big city looking like a flesh peddler. If the girl likes that kind of attention, enjoys the shallow relationships that ensue wearing those clothes. More power to her, she'll be able to remain shallow and superficial until her looks fade. There's really nothing wrong with this in my opinion. Some women are meant to challenge you physically, some are meant to challenge you mentally, some wondrous ones do both.

I really wouldn't worry about it. I got out of college, kept in touch with people and the people who were superficial and did drugs in high school. I can say, without exaggerating.... 1 in 3 of those people are dead. 4 drug related deaths, 3 suicides, 1 has HIV (I'll include as one of the ones dead.) And those people are all out of the more "popular" clique in my grade. Some of them have success stories though, married a rich man or woman, one landing a modeling job, then aside from deaths. There's a stripper among them. This is only 5 years after graduating... I don't really want to hear about those people in 10 or 20 years.

End point being, 2 women kissing is going to attract attention enjoy the free drinks and the physical connection. Explore if you want to explore, dress how you want if that makes you happy, parents are in charge of their kids and I think it takes a family to raise a kid not a village don't trample other people's rights if the TV(or other media outlet) is the baby sitter.
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If you actually read all of this. Here's a picture of two girls kissing.

If you didn't read all that, did you see that picture of two girls kissing? Woooo!

I did a little traveling, and oddly when I was visiting a friend at school in Kentucky, Yeehaw, someone put it best when we were talking about having kids. "When you have a son you have to worry about one pecker, when you have a daughter you have to worry about every pecker." 2nd and 3rd grade isn't a time to discover yourself or be learning too much about sex. If I had a teenage daughter They probably wouldn't talk to me about kissing another girl or what they do at the mall. If they're in their teens, they should be able to learn who they are and what they want in life. I don't think I'd care that much if they're kissing other girls. It's their life, they're welcome to explore and find what makes them happy... or doesn't.

Meh, some parents care some don't it's the way it's always been.

Oh, and let me ask you this, are you going to say its their life when you find out that your daughter has been raped because some guy was just drooling all over her body? Are you going to say its her life when she ends up pregnant or out being a slut? Are you going to say its her life when people start recognizing you as the father of a slut? Or your son, would you say its his life if he's a teen and says that he got a girl pregnant and oh, by the way, I've got HIV. You'll still be okay saying its their life?

How do you know that your plans of being a good parent will follow through? Usually you have to have the child first before the wants and words turn into actions. And I know that you can't hold their hand all their life but I do know this, if you tell them what's wrong and what's right they become confused because once they listen to the music and watch television, it usually goes against what you say. Then they're caught in the middle.

Yeah. That's true. But I mean like, a lot of parents don't tell their kids that. A lot of them don't even know what their children are watching.

I never said I didn't like her. I just don't like her song. And on another hand, I wrote it down because that's how I feel. And I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me. There's no wrong or right view in this. Our views are all individual. That's how you feel, this is how I feel. We're all human, there's at least going to one thing in this world that will piss us off. For you, its not an issue, but I'm sure something else that's part of "society" just gets under your skin.

I just want boys and girls to stop letting all this stuff to control them and allow it to be something that they want to do. Most times no matter how much you educate your child, or what you teach them or tell them to look out for they always fall prey to something. And I know that you've got to let them learn. But the world would be so much better if the younger generation coming up wasn't so set on if you dress like this or act like this then this is what gets you the attention you want. More and more youths are having children and getting diseases and I just think it needs to slow down. I'm not saying all of it generates from music and television, but a majority of it is. It's like being in a room filled with clucking chickens with one hole to break free and a chopping blade lowering every 2 minutes. If one starts to panick and get its head cut off, then a majority follow along and figure that's the only way. But if your wise enough to break that cycle, you'll find that way. And a lot of people aren't finding that way out.

I think this is the first time on a social forum I've seen the word meme used properly and not surrounded by a clout of racist jokes, moronic dogs giving advice or people sticking parts of their bodies in inappropriate places.

Thank you Cacophanaut. Although, you do have a picture of Hugh Laurie, so maybe it's all a bad farce or I've fallen asleep at work.

We've all been to some weird forums, I think. Anyways, I didn't mean to derail. Just got tired doing sales projections for vendors...

I wonder though, what all of your thoughts are on things like Social Darwinism, and you can abstract it, since it really isn't based off of anything according to Darwin and it's really only used by racists or people in the upper echelons of society to bring peace to their minds. I sometimes think we should remove the warning labels off of everything and just "see what happens" for a year. People who use the blow dryer in the shower weren't going to make a better light bulb anyway. I guess that's why I'm not too concerned with my kids, or even myself, being so heavily influenced by pop culture that it would control my life decisions.

Oh I don't believe in Social Darwinism, if that wasn't evident from what I said after it. The part about removing the warning labels was kind of a "I wonder" moment. Critical thinking is essential, and it's odd that schools don't use it as a deterrent to the information kids soak in from everywhere. Knowing why a supposedly reputable doctor says there aren't any links to cancer and cigarettes, is pretty obvious when you find out that his pharmaceutical company where he does the research is a subsidiary to Phillip Morris and Kraft Foods. A lot of problems that occur today wouldn't be so perplexing to most if they did a little digging. I guess, they're still problems is because very few people refuse to do that little bit of digging because it requires work on their end.

Back to point though, I'm not sure if the bar-sexual girls that SomberRemedy mentioned are really dull witted sheep or people just ahead of the curve and found out how to drink for free.

Oh people do all sorts of silly things for drinks. Whether they're always intelligent and noble is debatable but sometimes they're just bets made among friends.

I'm curious though how prevalent these kinds of girls are that are curious of their sexuality after hearing some song lyrics or spoke to their friends about it after hearing the song lyrics. I haven't heard much on this, and it's the kind of thing that Bill O'Reilly or other Fox News correspondents would LOVE to tout on their radio stations and tv shows as clear and present signs about the moral decay in society. Don't judge, I thoroughly hate Bill O'Reilly and only watch Fox News so that I can mock my friend's talking points that tend to be verbatim from their broadcasts.

I think the topic was only based on Katy Perry not because she somehow embodies all the evils in society but because the song is symptomatic of certain aspects of society the person who started the thread sees as a problem, to whit, the perpetuation of archaic attitudes toward lesbianism.

I don't agree with you that "you'll end up living life according to values that are the most suitable to you", because what does that mean? I don't think its about shaping the value to the situation, which is what the phrase "suitable to you" implies, but about developing a set of often very complex ideals through equally complex psychological processes that take a lifetime of shaping and polishing to find their form. For instance, couldn't it be said that perhaps those people who reject the values parents attempted to instill into them are simply rebelling? It is not always as simple as one thing like that, but it is an example of how your upbringing doesn't always have such a clear-cut effect on your adulthood ideals. Like I said, the human brain is much more complex than that.

And yes, kids do stupid things, but we are not really talking about the kids, we are talking about the society that influences them in negative ways and their propensity to absorb that influence unquestioningly. This tendency of theirs is not a bad quality, it is simply an aspect of our nature. The answer is, like I said earlier, to educate kids not about morals but ideas, teach them to question things. I do not believe morals to be static monoliths (although to some extent they are written into our evolutionary psychology as well) but fluid ideas that develop and evolve with society. The "morals" which you might hold and indoctrinate your children to hold could be entirely overturned by the time they are adults. Take carnivorism, for instance. It is possible (although probably not, in this case, within our children's lifetimes) that carnivorism will be looked back on in the same way we now look back on the slave trade. Is it therefore right to tell children there is a solid "right" and "wrong" on an ethical issue? In the case of murder, perhaps, but what about euthanasia? This is why I don't believe in teaching children about fixed morality.

Incidentally, what morals do you lack, Slovanka?