when exactly was this 'golden age'?

  • when exactly was this 'golden age'?

    i wasnt realy sure what the golden age was, so i just used non-old-school stuff from before the 90s. i always thought it was like 86/87 on, without the electro beats, until like 93 or somethin, when the gangsta thing took over. but then again, i think the term 'golden age' refers to the time when sample did not have to be paid for, and i think sample clearances started around 88/89. so....

    stab me 'til i cum
  • wiki says 86-93!?

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  • What I mean by Golden Age is that period when hip-hop moved away from that kind of disco sound it had with groups like The Furious Five, Sugarhill, etc., and began to have a sound that was unique to hip-hop. The wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_hip_hop) is close to what I mean but I'm not putting yearly contraints on it... Well, okay the group's title does include "Pre-90's" but like you wrote to me, it's more a sound and an attitude than 'anything made before December 31st 1989'.

    I basically made the group to celebrate how original a lot of hip-hop from the mid-80s to early 90's was and still sounds... Yes and to also point out that Tupac isn't old school and Hip-Hop didn't begin with B.I.G. Rap fans and music fans in general tend to be more about trends than knowledge, respect and even passion, right?

    Listen to something like 'Cold Gettin Dumb' by Just Ice and compare it to any innovative hip-hop made today and it stands up. Compare it to the more commercial stuff from today and it makes the commercial stuff look like Britney Spears. And lyrically has there been much that has surpassed the beautiful anger of NWA and songs like 'Gangsta Gangsta', 'F--k the Police', etc.?

    I hope that's made it clearer. If you want to discuss contemporary Hip-Hoppers who make music related to the Golden Age feel free, but like the wiki article points out stuff like Jurassic 5 is more 'retro-rap'.

    To me a song like 'Grindin' by Clipse has more in common with the Golden Age idea (i.e. doing something different and unique, just a beat and a rhyme and Pharrell even said it was a tribute to Sucker MCs by Run DMC) than the retro-rappers because retro-rap is more about copying the sound rather than staying true to the ideas. The same thing happens in Rock music - Oasis sound like The Beatles and 60's guitar pop-rock in general but someone like Panda Bear is more true to their spirit of experimentation and musical diversity, etc.

    Oh, I would call the Gorillaz influenced by the Golden Age but it's more Pop than Hip-Hop to me and lacks the fire of 80's Hip-Hop simply because it is paying tribute to the sounds rather than inventing them.

    Tell me what you think.


  • i dont know what that just ice thing is, is it a song off of back to the old school? cause id have to say that back to the old-school was a, eh, old-school cd, despite the time in which it was released, i think his other albums were more golden, and also, id say gorilaz do old-school hip-hop [see THIS LIST]. id say its sounds very good and fun, but the word that best sums it up is 80s.

    see, its wierd, i keep coming back to this thing that is somewhere in the back of my head that the golden age was a time before sample clearances became the law [or wahtever u would call it], and if by golden age u mean a funk/jazz sample with diffenent styles of rappin over it then that covers pretty much all hip-hop, and 90% of good hip-hop imho.

    either way, im sure, in the know or not, people will join this group, and sadly eventualy our voices will be drowned out by 2pac fans. i bet we [me] are in the minority already.

    stab me 'til i cum
  • 'Cold gettin dumb' is from 'Back to the old school' but if you consider that 'Rapper's delight' is clearly old school then the song is not in the same category.

    I'm not just picking songs due to the fact that they fit wikipedia's idea of 'The Golden Age'!!

    And the way I'm using 'The Golden Age' is not to refer to a distinct sound but an attitude of invention. It is the golden age because so much innovation in Hip-Hop occurred in a relatively small space of time between the end of the old school and the beginning of G-funk, etc.

    The art of sampling was born, the rhyme schemes became more elaborate (old school tends to be 'AA BB CC DD'), Hip-Hop developed a sound distinct from other genres despite often creating this sound by sampling other genres, etc.

    I understand why you think Gorillaz are related to old school hip-hop but to what extent is the music hip-hop? I mean, I know the first album fairly well and the first few songs are just Pop and then there's a Punk song and then there's... uhmmm some rapping and then some dub and then a Latin song. It has a Hip-Hop vibe to it because of the beats and the eclectism but most stores classify it as 'Pop/Rock', right?

  • i only really know their second, i cant stand thet automator guy, he ruins everything, KK just about keeps dr. octagon at a listenable standerd, but...

    yeah well, im not realy good at arguing, i might as well quote wiki, or the name of that cd.

    i dont think a lot of invention happened at all, the only real difference was in what was sampled, or the melody, and other nessisary variables. - oh wait, unless ur talkin about all that horrible house, and i suppose that stupid bomb squad racket [i do really like amerikkkas most wanted tho].

    please remember, i dont really ever think anything through before i post, im not smart or clever, dont really have a very big knowledge of the subjest at hand, and never man any offence.

    stab me 'til i cum
  • Well it's the mid-1980's that sampling was really an art. Before that rappers either recreated a record (e.g. 'Rappers Delight', 'Planet Rock', etc.) or just rhymed over the top of it. Most early hip-hop I've heard actually doesn't use many samples or at least doesn't sound like it's using samples.

    Sugarhill, Kurtis Blow, Furious Five, etc., they all have a synthesised disco sound like much of the pop at that time (e.g. Prince, Madonna, Michael Jackson, etc.). In fact looking at the (often unreliable) wikipedia it says that affordable samplers first came onto the market around 84-86, roughly the same time wikipedia claims the 'Golden age' began.

    If you can't hear the invention that took place in the 'golden age' then just compare something like 'rappers delight' to 'straight outta compton' - the old school sound is almost singing whereas the golden age style is much closer to speech (or in this case, yelling), it doesn't sound like disco nor does it imitate any other popular sound at the time other than a hip-hop sound, the rhyme schemes are more complex, the themes are more idiosyncratic (i.e. they don't care if you can empathise or not), etc.

    If by necessary variables you mean the necessary evolution that happens in all genres then it's an understatement to say that nothing much happened. It's like the difference between pop in the early 1960's and the end of the 60's - it had fragmented into sub-genres, new technology prompted new ideas and sounds, etc.

    Just as rock music today tends to inevitably refer back to the 1960's/early 70's, Hip-hop today back more to the 'golden age' than the old school style in its themes (more about bling and poverty than the old school 'let's have a party' or 'I'm the best MC' style).

    If you compare what happened back then when samplers were introduced (e.g. 'It takes a nation...', 'Paul's Boutique', '3 feet high and rising', etc.) to what happened recently when laptops became cheap you can see how enthusiastic people were back then to do something new compared to now. The same thing applies to rock and pop - compared to the rock and pop of 1960's today's stuff is very unadventurous. There are obviously still innovative people around (e.g. Timbaland, Neptunes, Radiohead, Bjork, etc.), but just fewer and other musicians no longer 'follow the leader' so much as they 'follow the trend'.

    So, do you see what I mean now? :-D

    Essentially, if you want to hear the innovation I speak of then compare rappers delight to straight outta compton. Then compare something like ridin dirty to straight outta compton and it should be clear that NWA's sound is far more different to the old school than ridin dirty is to the golden age.

    And I didn't think we were arguing, just discussing. :-D

  • no, i just tend to piss people off and get called a dick - cause of my bad garamer and shit i suppose.

    what i ment by nessisary variables, was a little sipler than what u thought. im tryin to say there was next to no invention in the golden age, that it stayed the same for 6 years; sampleing james brown, and by variables i just ment different lyrics. thats all they had, some sucked some was great, but it was all the same. the only inventive part was in swaping rappin over instrumentals, to makin ur own instumentals from 'scratch', and then they did that the whole time - im not knokin it, just not agreein it is somethin its not. [and i could be wrong]

    btw, i heard ridin dirty for the first time yesterday, i forgot what i thought of it, im sure i didnt love it.
    [checks rym]
    no, i gave it a 3, thats not bad, good to be exact.
    i heard Eightball & M.J.G. - Comin' Out Hard (1993) too, u heard that one? that was crap, i gave it a 1.5. - which still aint really bad either, it was mostly story raps, and, even tho i dont care for lyrics, u cant rubbish them, but they were usin a sythesizer, like what slick rick used, or eric be towards the end of paid in full, disgusting sounds!

    stab me 'til i cum
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