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Mormons sorry for posthumous baptisms

 
  • Mormons sorry for posthumous baptisms

    RTÉ News

    The Mormon Church has apologised for the posthumous baptisms into Mormonism of the parents of Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal.


    Source: RTÉ, Getty Images
    Republican US presidential candidate Mitt Romney has been called on to address the issue of baptisms 'by proxy'

    ....The apology by the Mormon Church came on the same day that Holocaust survivor and Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel called on Republican US presidential candidate and prominent Mormon Mitt Romney to address the issue after Mr Wiesel's own Holocaust victim parents were similarly baptized by the Mormon Church...


    Read More: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0215/mormons.html

    [notably, Mitt Romney baptised his father-in-law posthumously]

    "Or shall I perhaps know, That I was happy oft and oft before, Or must I be content with discontent..." - Edward Thomas, The Glory
    • sgath92 said...
    • User
    • 16 Feb 2012, 15:26
    They really don't care what other people outside their church think of posthumous baptisms because per their religion, posthumous baptisms only make a dead person a mormon if the dead person agrees to it. Supposedly if you baptise someone who is dead who doesn't want to be a mormon, they don't become a mormon.

    So its not "we're sorry" but "we're sorry you're offended."

    • Bloopy said...
    • Subscriber
    • 16 Feb 2012, 23:37
    sgath92 said:
    So its not "we're sorry" but "we're sorry you're offended."
    Except they're saying the names shouldn't have been submitted to the process in the first place.

    It's kind of hard to get offended by something you don't believe in. It's more just laughable.

    It's Halloween all year round over here: Chronic Halloween Syndrome
  • I don't really know what to say in response to that article. The church can't be held responsible for the actions of one particular individual but as Rabbi Cooper said if this keeps happening then an apology is meaningless. The church can be blamed if numerous members of their congregation think this behaviour is acceptable. I felt I should comment as a Jew. I don't really think it's laugable, Bloopy.

    We learned more from a 3-minute record, baby than we ever learned in school
    • sgath92 said...
    • User
    • 17 Feb 2012, 02:28
    Bloopy said:
    sgath92 said:
    So its not "we're sorry" but "we're sorry you're offended."
    Except they're saying the names shouldn't have been submitted to the process in the first place.

    It's kind of hard to get offended by something you don't believe in. It's more just laughable.


    Most names shouldn't be submitted to the process in the first place.

    This is only supposed to be done, and per their religion only "works" for people who are direct ancestors of a given mormon. We're talking people related by blood here. So Joe Blow down the street your typical mormon would have them do the service for whoever he thinks was his great great great grandparents.

    But since most people, mormons included, don't know much about genealogy how this works in practice is someone will go to a site like ancestry, find someone who has already made a family tree with their family in it, and then takes that family tree as gospel. Without any actual genealogical work. No historical research. No footnotes, no basis to prove any hereditary link. Which means most of the time instead of having the church posthumously converting their real great great grandparents, they end up trying to posthumously converting someone who isn't even related to them & was simply erroneously placed in some end user's family tree on the internet. Most user created family tree content on sites like ancestry are just plain wrong.

    The mormon's have their own genealogy site similar to ancestry, and the database is filled with a lot of dupes, fluff, and inaccuracy. It's still a helpful tool for someone who actually knows what they're doing [just as ancestry is]. But there seems to be few & far between [of any given religious persuasion or lack thereof] who actually know how to do real genealogical research.

    So I really don't see what the big deal is here, and I don't think I would get the controversy if I wasn't an atheist. Per their own belief system all these dead people have to agree to become mormons. I don't think Elie Wiesel seriously believes his dead parents would agree to converting to mormonism [assuming he believes they still exist in some spiritual afterlife sense].

  • sgath92 said:
    So I really don't see what the big deal is here, and I don't think I would get the controversy if I wasn't an atheist. Per their own belief system all these dead people have to agree to become mormons. I don't think Elie Wiesel seriously believes his dead parents would agree to converting to mormonism [assuming he believes they still exist in some spiritual afterlife sense].


    It isn't about that. It's about the fact that Jews have been persecuted for their beliefs. Both Wiesel's and Wiesenthals parents perished because of who they were. Christians can't even stop trying to convert you in death.

    We learned more from a 3-minute record, baby than we ever learned in school
  • EmptySkyXD said:
    sgath92 said:
    So I really don't see what the big deal is here, and I don't think I would get the controversy if I wasn't an atheist. Per their own belief system all these dead people have to agree to become mormons. I don't think Elie Wiesel seriously believes his dead parents would agree to converting to mormonism [assuming he believes they still exist in some spiritual afterlife sense].


    It isn't about that. It's about the fact that Jews have been persecuted for their beliefs. Both Wiesel's and Wiesenthals parents perished because of who they were. Christians can't even stop trying to convert you in death.
    This.

    I think it's just a shame a man who claims to be rational and good for America seeks to baptise holocaust survivors and victims after their death.

    There's a bloody good reason why some did it when they were dead. Their belief is ludicrous, they know they wouldn't accept it in life. It therefore seems symbolic but to Jews insulting. I think apologies are owed.

    "Or shall I perhaps know, That I was happy oft and oft before, Or must I be content with discontent..." - Edward Thomas, The Glory
  • The fact is simple, we have been persecuted enough in life and should be able to escape that in death. It's another form of humiliation. Anyone who doesn't understand this, religious or secular, needs their head examined.

    Paddy, I don't know what use an apology would be. This has happened before and will keep happening. The church needs to teach tolerance... I wonder how many times that has been said!

    We learned more from a 3-minute record, baby than we ever learned in school
  • Apologies and retractions go a long way...

    learn from their mistakes and move on. Everyone has to.

    "Or shall I perhaps know, That I was happy oft and oft before, Or must I be content with discontent..." - Edward Thomas, The Glory
    • lawynd said...
    • User
    • 27 Feb 2012, 14:08
    They're at it again, this time with Anne Frank.

    Official recorder of Schrödinger's Tampon.

    Quote of the moment - selfsurprise:
    "My rolo yoghurt pots bring 'dem kids to the yard, and i'm like 'its better than ya'lls'
    yer damn right its better than ya'lls'
    I can teach you but i'll have to charge (+VAT, duty stamp tax, etc et all)"
  • Church PR:

    “It is distressing when an individual wilfully violates the Church's policy,” the statement continued, "and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention.”

    Somebody doesn't know the definition of respect.

    We learned more from a 3-minute record, baby than we ever learned in school
    • lawynd said...
    • User
    • 27 Feb 2012, 20:00
    On the bright side, we can now introduce deceased Mormons to the joys of homosexuality that they never enjoyed in life. http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/

    Official recorder of Schrödinger's Tampon.

    Quote of the moment - selfsurprise:
    "My rolo yoghurt pots bring 'dem kids to the yard, and i'm like 'its better than ya'lls'
    yer damn right its better than ya'lls'
    I can teach you but i'll have to charge (+VAT, duty stamp tax, etc et all)"
    • kkkoen said...
    • User
    • 29 Feb 2012, 13:18
    lawynd said:
    On the bright side, we can now introduce deceased Mormons to the joys of homosexuality that they never enjoyed in life. http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/

    That's fucking hilarious. I love it.

  • ^ hehehe



    "Or shall I perhaps know, That I was happy oft and oft before, Or must I be content with discontent..." - Edward Thomas, The Glory
  • ^ hehehe



    "Or shall I perhaps know, That I was happy oft and oft before, Or must I be content with discontent..." - Edward Thomas, The Glory
  • There's something about this whole thing that seems incredibly disrespectful to me; to the dead person and their heritage. The fact that they wanted to convert Anne Frank pretty much tells me that they want attention because of this stunt. It's a bit of a. . . funny practice.

    Excuse me, you're standing on my neck.
    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 11 Mar 2012, 00:49
    It's disgraceful to someone's memory to make a decision for them posthumously if you have no reason to believe that they would have made the decision on their own.

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