Do orcas have rights under the US Constitution?

- Bloopy said...
- Subscriber
- 28 Jan 2012, 06:54
Do orcas have rights under the US Constitution?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10781733
In the coming months, if a judge allows the motion, she will be a key part of an unusual and controversial court case designed to challenge the captivity of five captive orca in the US (there are thought to be 42 captive orca worldwide and possibly thousands of dolphins) by using the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, which bans slavery.

...

Professor Steven Wise, who visited New Zealand a few years ago to speak to Auckland University law students, has long been investigating using the law to get rights for imprisoned animals but says the 13th Amendment is not the way to go. He fears a judge will simply rule orca are not slaves under the constitution and thus deal a blow to all future legal challenges.

Kerr, however, says it is the right time to make this challenge -the public is ready for change, he says, and the captive orca are definitely ready.

Peta asserts that the 13th Amendment bans slavery but makes no reference to species. Kerr says slavery is slavery, no matter the species of the slave. He says this is the first case to seek to apply the constitution to living, breathing, feeling beings who happen to be born not human and regardless of whether this case is the one to make change, change is coming.
I'm always fascinated by articles that give insight into how society's perception might change in the future. I don't think this will succeed. If it did it would set a scary precedent that most people aren't ready to deal with.

It takes time for society's perception to progress. Snatching them away now might cause a backlash. Not sure if this makes sense, but I'm less interested in the welfare of the animals, and more interested in seeing society gain intelligence and compassion, to the point where most people agree it's a good idea.

It's Halloween all year round over here: Chronic Halloween Syndrome

[quote][b][user]Bloopy[/user][/b] said: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10781733 [quote]In the coming months, if a judge allows the motion, she will be a key part of an unusual and controversial court case designed to challenge the captivity of five captive orca in the US (there are thought to be 42 captive orca worldwide and possibly thousands of dolphins) by [b]using the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, which bans slavery.[/b] ... Professor Steven Wise, who visited New Zealand a few years ago to speak to Auckland University law students, has long been investigating using the law to get rights for imprisoned animals but says the 13th Amendment is not the way to go. He fears a judge will simply rule orca are not slaves under the constitution and thus deal a blow to all future legal challenges. Kerr, however, says it is the right time to make this challenge -the public is ready for change, he says, and the captive orca are definitely ready. Peta asserts that the 13th Amendment bans slavery but makes no reference to species. Kerr says slavery is slavery, no matter the species of the slave. He says this is the first case to seek to apply the constitution to living, breathing, feeling beings who happen to be born not human and regardless of whether this case is the one to make change, change is coming.[/quote] I'm always fascinated by articles that give insight into how society's perception might change in the future. I don't think this will succeed. If it did it would set a scary precedent that most people aren't ready to deal with. It takes time for society's perception to progress. Snatching them away now might cause a backlash. Not sure if this makes sense, but I'm less interested in the welfare of the animals, and more interested in seeing society gain intelligence and compassion, to the point where most people agree it's a good idea.[/quote]

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- FWBTS said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 10:53
Unfortunately, I don't think society cares enough to be on the side of the animals. Maybe a select few, but certainly not those who don't have their finger on anything in society other than themselves.

[quote][b][user]FWBTS[/user][/b] said: Unfortunately, I don't think society cares enough to be on the side of the animals. Maybe a select few, but certainly not those who don't have their finger on anything in society other than themselves.[/quote]

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- sgath92 said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 17:02
FWBTS said:
Unfortunately, I don't think society cares enough to be on the side of the animals. Maybe a select few, but certainly not those who don't have their finger on anything in society other than themselves.

PETA/HSUS isn't on the side of the animals.

They just claim to be, while managing to euthanize practically all the animals they "rescue."

As part of their stance on "animal captivity is slavery" they hope to criminalize all captivity of animals including household pets like cats & dogs.

However, cats & dogs do not exist in the wild and would be an invasive species if they were released. So their plan after criminalizing all captivity is to sterilize cats & dogs and let them die out, and then disappear forever.

Extinction [of domesticated species & breeds] is not "on the side of animals."

[quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]FWBTS[/user][/b] said: Unfortunately, I don't think society cares enough to be [b]on the side of the animals[/b]. Maybe a select few, but certainly not those who don't have their finger on anything in society other than themselves.[/quote] PETA/HSUS isn't on the side of the animals. They just claim to be, while managing to euthanize practically all the animals they "rescue." As part of their stance on "animal captivity is slavery" they hope to criminalize all captivity of animals including household pets like cats & dogs. However, cats & dogs do not exist in the wild and would be an invasive species if they were released. So their plan after criminalizing all captivity is to sterilize cats & dogs and let them die out, and then disappear forever. Extinction [of domesticated species & breeds] is not "on the side of animals."[/quote]

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- sgath92 said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 18:27
[quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXujefcWrok[/youtube][/quote]

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- FWBTS said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 18:34
sgath92 said:
FWBTS said:
Unfortunately, I don't think society cares enough to be on the side of the animals. Maybe a select few, but certainly not those who don't have their finger on anything in society other than themselves.

PETA/HSUS isn't on the side of the animals.

They just claim to be, while managing to euthanize practically all the animals they "rescue."

As part of their stance on "animal captivity is slavery" they hope to criminalize all captivity of animals including household pets like cats & dogs.

However, cats & dogs do not exist in the wild and would be an invasive species if they were released. So their plan after criminalizing all captivity is to sterilize cats & dogs and let them die out, and then disappear forever.

Extinction [of domesticated species & breeds] is not "on the side of animals."

Sorry, I hadn't taken into account PETA/HSUS. But doesn't that sort of back up my point anyway? Society doesn't care, and therefore it's probable that institutions won't care either.

[quote][b][user]FWBTS[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]FWBTS[/user][/b] said: Unfortunately, I don't think society cares enough to be [b]on the side of the animals[/b]. Maybe a select few, but certainly not those who don't have their finger on anything in society other than themselves.[/quote] PETA/HSUS isn't on the side of the animals. They just claim to be, while managing to euthanize practically all the animals they "rescue." As part of their stance on "animal captivity is slavery" they hope to criminalize all captivity of animals including household pets like cats & dogs. However, cats & dogs do not exist in the wild and would be an invasive species if they were released. So their plan after criminalizing all captivity is to sterilize cats & dogs and let them die out, and then disappear forever. Extinction [of domesticated species & breeds] is not "on the side of animals."[/quote] Sorry, I hadn't taken into account PETA/HSUS. But doesn't that sort of back up my point anyway? Society doesn't care, and therefore it's probable that institutions won't care either. [/quote]

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- sgath92 said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 18:37
I think you would be surprised by how many people care, and the growing amount of people who are against the HSUS/PETA freaks is testament to that.

The problem is when people, like these extremists, start using captivity as a litmus test on animal welfare concerns.

Captivity is a necessary evil in conservation work, and there are many, many species that are extinct in the wild but have individual enthusiasts running captive breeding programs in their homes under the hope that the captive population will one day be able to be used to repopulate the wild.

Some endangered & threatened animals have been brought back from the brink this way. The blue indigo snake [while not out of the woods yet] was saved by letting it into the pet trade.

[quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: I think you would be surprised by how many people care, and the growing amount of people who are against the HSUS/PETA freaks is testament to that. The problem is when people, like these extremists, start using captivity as a litmus test on animal welfare concerns. Captivity is a necessary evil in conservation work, and there are many, many species that are extinct in the wild but have individual enthusiasts running captive breeding programs in their homes under the hope that the captive population will one day be able to be used to repopulate the wild. Some endangered & threatened animals have been brought back from the brink this way. The blue indigo snake [while not out of the woods yet][i] was saved by letting it into the pet trade[/i].[/quote]

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- FWBTS said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 18:47
sgath92 said:
I think you would be surprised by how many people care, and the growing amount of people who are against the HSUS/PETA freaks is testament to that.

The problem is when people, like these extremists, start using captivity as a litmus test on animal welfare concerns.

Captivity is a necessary evil in conservation work, and there are many, many species that are extinct in the wild but have individual enthusiasts running captive breeding programs in their homes under the hope that the captive population will one day be able to be used to repopulate the wild.

Some endangered & threatened animals have been brought back from the brink this way. The blue indigo snake [while not out of the woods yet] was saved by letting it into the pet trade.

Fair enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally anti- captivity. As you said before, there are a lot of pros to keeping certain species in captivity, such as those who are endangered to help boost their breeding process or protect them etc. I was simply speculating that I think, in general all over the world, not enough people care about animal rights to really try and make a difference. in America obviously I can see it's different now, due to the people protesting against PETA/HSUS, but I didn't know that before, so I apologise.

[quote][b][user]FWBTS[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: I think you would be surprised by how many people care, and the growing amount of people who are against the HSUS/PETA freaks is testament to that. The problem is when people, like these extremists, start using captivity as a litmus test on animal welfare concerns. Captivity is a necessary evil in conservation work, and there are many, many species that are extinct in the wild but have individual enthusiasts running captive breeding programs in their homes under the hope that the captive population will one day be able to be used to repopulate the wild. Some endangered & threatened animals have been brought back from the brink this way. The blue indigo snake [while not out of the woods yet][i] was saved by letting it into the pet trade[/i].[/quote] Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally anti- captivity. As you said before, there are a lot of pros to keeping certain species in captivity, such as those who are endangered to help boost their breeding process or protect them etc. I was simply speculating that I think, in general all over the world, not enough people care about animal rights to really try and make a difference. in America obviously I can see it's different now, due to the people protesting against PETA/HSUS, but I didn't know that before, so I apologise.[/quote]

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- sgath92 said...
- User
- 28 Jan 2012, 19:32
Their side is winning, in part because the average American has been fooled into believing that by supporting HSUS they're supporting their local animal shelter; HSUS runs all these ads on tv about neglected cats & dogs, so people donate money thinking they're helping those causes. Instead HSUS then throws that money into their massive warchest that's used to push their political agenda [which consists of only two things: end of all animal-human contact, and veganism].

HSUS & PETA are the same organization, with HSUS existing to try to gain mainstream support since the average American sees PETA for what it really is & won't support them directly. Together they have come to play a vital role in Animal Planet's programming [the tv network] which in return helps their cause by getting the general public to watch sensationalized shows like their "Fatal Attraction" series [a series that exists solely to attack exotic pet ownership in preparation for things like the so-called "python ban" that the Obama Admin rolled out a couple weeks ago, and a plethora of state-level bills aimed at severely restricting the general public's ability to have animals in captivity].

[quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: Their side is winning, in part because the average American has been fooled into believing that by supporting HSUS they're supporting their local animal shelter; HSUS runs all these ads on tv about neglected cats & dogs, so people donate money thinking they're helping those causes. Instead HSUS then throws that money into their massive warchest that's used to push their political agenda [which consists of only two things: end of all animal-human contact, and veganism]. HSUS & PETA are the same organization, with HSUS existing to try to gain mainstream support since the average American sees PETA for what it really is & won't support them directly. Together they have come to play a vital role in Animal Planet's programming [the tv network] which in return helps their cause by getting the general public to watch sensationalized shows like their "Fatal Attraction" series [a series that exists solely to attack exotic pet ownership in preparation for things like the so-called "python ban" that the Obama Admin rolled out a couple weeks ago, and a plethora of state-level bills aimed at severely restricting the general public's ability to have animals in captivity]. [/quote]

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- DARKBREEDCULT said...
- User
- 31 Jan 2012, 18:01
Wow

This is wild

[quote][b][user]DARKBREEDCULT[/user][/b] said: This is wild[/quote]

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- sgath92 said...
- User
- 10 Feb 2012, 20:57
Judge dismissed the case.

In other news: Another animal rights extremist has been put in charge of part of PETA's unofficial political lobbyist arm.

Patrick Kwan has become HSUS's director over their New York state activities.

In the 1990s, Kwan was an organizer for the so-called New York City Animal Defense League (ADL), a radical “direct action” group. According to the NYC ADL’s publication (page 8), Kwan was arrested on multiple occasions in 1997 and charged with inciting a riot (a felony), disorderly conduct, trespass, and resisting arrest. That’s quite a record. (Kwan is listed as a contributor and photographer for the publication.)

Additionally, Kwan was reportedly arrested in Northboro, Massachusetts in 1999 for malicious destruction of property, being a disorderly person, disturbing the peace, and threatening to commit a crime. The group he was with was protesting outside the private home of a medical researcher.

Rest explained at Humanewatch.org

[quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: Judge dismissed the case. In other news: Another animal rights extremist has been put in charge of part of PETA's unofficial political lobbyist arm. Patrick Kwan has become HSUS's director over their New York state activities. [quote="Humane Watch"]In the 1990s, Kwan was an organizer for the so-called New York City Animal Defense League (ADL), a radical “direct action” group. According to the NYC ADL’s publication (page 8), Kwan was arrested on multiple occasions in 1997 and charged with inciting a riot (a felony), disorderly conduct, trespass, and resisting arrest. That’s quite a record. (Kwan is listed as a contributor and photographer for the publication.) Additionally, Kwan was reportedly arrested in Northboro, Massachusetts in 1999 for malicious destruction of property, being a disorderly person, disturbing the peace, and threatening to commit a crime. The group he was with was protesting outside the private home of a medical researcher.[/quote] Rest explained at [url=http://humanewatch.org/index.php/site/post/another_alf_supporter_in_hsuss_leadership/]Humanewatch.org[/url][/quote]

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- Utgardloki666 said...
- User
- 11 Feb 2012, 15:38
LOL.
Those Americans who treat other people like animals really dare to discuss about whether orcas are to be treated according to the United States Constitution?
You can't be real about that.
That's an offense to all the victims of the countless American war crimes.
Shame on you! SHAME!

[quote][b][user]Utgardloki666[/user][/b] said: LOL. Those Americans who treat other people like animals really dare to discuss about whether orcas are to be treated according to the United States Constitution? You can't be real about that. That's an offense to all the victims of the countless American war crimes. Shame on you! SHAME![/quote]

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- sgath92 said...
- User
- 11 Feb 2012, 17:20
It's not really about how the animals are being treated. If it were, this nonsense wouldn't be started by groups like PETA which kill so many of their would-be "rescued pets" that they have to keep expanding their freezers because they literally can't get rid of the bodies fast enough to keep up with the rate in which they kill them.

HSUS, which recently got the feds to ban the importation & interstate transport of 4 snake species was confronted by USARK on NPR a few days ago. USARK said that, thanks to the bans many of these 4 snakes kept as pets will be displaced when their owners have to move to another state [because taking one with them would make them felons & face a sentence of FIVE YEARS IN PRISON]. USARK has encouraged the formation of an adoption group, The Burmese Initiative to help these displaced animals get placed in new homes when this scenario happens so they don't have to be released or killed.

HSUS was unwilling to give a single penny to the cause.

What is it about then? Americans trying to force their views upon other Americans. PETA won't be happy until we're all vegans, and all human-animal contact is criminalized.

[quote][b][user]sgath92[/user][/b] said: It's not really about how the animals are being treated. If it were, this nonsense wouldn't be started by groups like PETA which kill so many of their would-be "rescued pets" that they have to keep expanding their freezers because they [i]literally can't get rid of the bodies fast enough[/i] to keep up with the rate in which they kill them. HSUS, which recently got the feds to ban the importation & interstate transport of 4 snake species was confronted by USARK on NPR a few days ago. USARK said that, thanks to the bans many of these 4 snakes kept as pets will be displaced when their owners have to move to another state [because taking one with them would make them felons & face a sentence of FIVE YEARS IN PRISON]. USARK has encouraged the formation of an adoption group, The Burmese Initiative to help these displaced animals get placed in new homes when this scenario happens so they don't have to be released or killed. HSUS was unwilling to give a single penny to the cause. What is it about then? Americans trying to force their views upon other Americans. PETA won't be happy until we're all vegans, and all human-animal contact is criminalized.[/quote]

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Do orcas have rights under the US Constitution?

Do orcas have rights under the US Constitution?

Wow