Forum » Feedback and Ideas

October 21st site update - forthcoming changes for subscribers

 
    • Naijca said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 21 Oct 2010, 22:41
    ClocklessHours said:
    Naijca said:
    Honestly, I wanted to avoid this thread because of all the sad, angry and disappointing user replies there would be.

    Honestly, what did you expect? Taking stuff away doesn't exactly make folks happy.
    I suggest you read my post again before assuming I excepted anything positive out of this.

    Hear their screams, such sweet music. ♥ Message me → [Inbox]
    Last.fmで顧客サポートを行う。日本語でおk! → [メール]
    • smee85 said...
    • User
    • 21 Oct 2010, 22:42

    Re: Re:Refunds!

    acreature said:
    your playlists, tags, and loved tracks aren't going anywhere. It's the playability that's going.

    funniest thing i ever heard

    acreature said:
    we're investigating ways to let you play them on other services.

    clarify.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 21 Oct 2010, 22:43

    So in other words....

    .....don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Man...what a truely sad day.

  • Re: Changes

    steamboat58 said:
    From reading some items on this site, LFM is not sure what all the changes will be. How can you restructure LFM without a full plan ? I am a retired Computer Operations Analyst and would not have held that position very long if redesigning a system without a full plan.

    We have a plan, but it's not practical to lay things out in public too specifically. Plans can change for a variety of reasons in a variety of ways – deadlines get moved, the scope changes, business and legal constraints make us alter things, and so on. (I've written about this before, at greater length.)

    I'd love to tell you more, but we'd rather not make promises we can't keep even if it is inadvertent. For now, I'm afraid you'll have to trust us. And I can say that we'll be launching a new radio station, available to everyone (not just subscribers), that should help you hear more music you like.

  • acreature said:
    That's one way of looking at it, but I'd say the main point of Last.fm is to help you discover new music¹, explore your own listening habits², and enhance your musical world³. None of that's changing. Other services are better at doing on-demand streaming than we were, and it makes more sense to work with them and focus on the stuff we do well.


    Are you kidding? This is absolutely changing all of that.

    How do we discover new music if we can't listen to it? No more on-demand, no more tags, no more playlists, no more loved tracks.. are we supposed to *imagine* the music, or what? What listening habits are we cultivating if we can't listen?

    This sounds entirely like spin. Can you honestly tell me this change is making last.fm BETTER?

    We know it's going to be an unpopular move, and we don't want people to feel like they paid for one thing and received another. The least we can do is let people have a refund if they don't think Last.fm is value for money after this change.

    That is exactly the least you can do. Unfortunately our time and efforts at this website cannot be refunded, and all of that is down the drain starting November 17th. And you want to say this is just "unpopular", as if it's just our opinion and not an incredible setback for the site.

    More corporate spin.

    We do work closely with the labels – they give us the music we play you, after all – but keeping the labels happy isn't our goal. We're focused on the users and giving you the best site we can. But Last.fm wouldn't be that good if we couldn't play you music, and it wouldn't be that good if we spent all our energy tied up in licensing instead of working on new features. There's a balance to be struck, and sadly sometimes we have to do unpopular things for long-term benefits.

    See, this is where steam starts coming out of my ears.

    Some staffers tell us they are very sad about this terrible change, and you talk like you're doing this for OUR benefit.

    "WE're focused on the users"? Let me tell you as a long time user of this site, here's what this user thinks. DO NOT WANT. I don't want other features. I can't think of anything at all that you could conceivably do that would make up for this change. Nothing whatsoever.

    There is nothing that I want more than to be able to listen to my tags, my playlists, and my loved tracks.

    Listen to what the users are telling you.

    Whatever it is you are doing, it is not for the User's benefit.

    Edited by lizvelrene on 21 Oct 2010, 22:44
  • As I said, I don't use the "streaming" aspect of this "service" anyway, so, whatever. I am here basically to interact with others who listen to the stuff I do. I have a large catalog of music, and have used last.fm more as a reference for other bands who are similar to what I'm listening. So, for that, last.fm has been nice. Certainly, interacting with others has been nice, too.

    But tell me, if this place is going to continue to go down the tubes and ostracize its members, someone direct me somewhere that is good. Is there another site around that has the ability to "scrobble" your music plays and recommend things that are similar? Is there a site that streams the music (even if I have to pay for it? - because, I assure you, that's not a problem).

    End result - if last.FM is going to turn its back on its core members, I'll go elsewhere but I'd like an alternative source that is viable for what I want to be available. I don't know of one at the moment ...

  • Re:indie and out-of-print

    BlueBackground said:
    And for the multitude of artists who can't be found elsewhere, what will this mean?

    They'll be unaffected, I expect. Indie artists can still set their music to play in full from their page, and all the artists you listed will still play in our Radio streams as before. The content pool isn't changing, just the way you can listen to it.

  • Re:Re:Refunds!

    acreature said:
    Just to be clear, your playlists, tags, and loved tracks aren't going anywhere. It's the playability that's going.

    Then what's the point of having them?

  • lizvelrene said:
    What if we PREFER you be tied up in licensing, so we can actually listen to music, rather than you developing new "features" that we don't want?


    ^This.

    Why develop a bunch of gadgets that no one cares about while taking away what the core attraction of brought people here in the first place? It sounds like you're just trying to justify downgrading things. It doesn't hold water.

  • lizvelrene said:
    How do we discover new music if we can't listen to it? No more on-demand, no more tags, no more playlists, no more loved tracks.. are we supposed to *imagine* the music, or what? What listening habits are we cultivating if we can't listen?
    You can still listen – to your library, to global tags, to groups, to your neighbourhood, to your best friend's recommendations, to festival stations, to similar artist streams, and any others I've forgotten. You can listen to music Last.fm recommends on other services that scrobble. It all helps build your profile, which plays into the discovery and other stuff I mentioned before.

    This sounds entirely like spin. Can you honestly tell me this change is making last.fm BETTER?I'm sorry you think I'm spinning. Just so you know, I'm a developer at Last.fm. I'm not a PR person and I haven't had any PR training. It's midnight in the UK and I'm posting on the forums in my own time; you're welcome to agree or disagree with my views, but I'm certainly not parroting a company line.

    And no, I can't tell you that the change is making Last.fm better. Sadly, it is a necessary change. "Why?" is your next question. "Business reasons," is the next answer, which sounds vague but I can't give more details, sadly. I'm as open as I can be, but every business has private internal details.

  • lizvelrene said:
    What if we PREFER you be tied up in licensing, so we can actually listen to music, rather than you developing new "features" that we don't want?
    We've got more than 35 million users on Last.fm, and we have to balance their wishes (which are certainly not uniform) with our own plans.

    HMSTerror said:
    It sounds like you're just trying to justify downgrading things.
    I'm trying to explain why it's happening. Whether it's justified is a decision for you, I'm afraid.

    • [Deleted user] said...
    • User
    • 21 Oct 2010, 23:04
    acreature said:
    You can still listen – to your library ...
    Why didn't I think of this? Instead of creating playlists, I am going to create user libraries ...

    Seriously, the main response to the April site change was that playability wasn't affected. Now, it is going to be. And what on earth is an unplayable playlist?

    • pavskies said...
    • Subscriber
    • 21 Oct 2010, 23:05
    Wait, so they just removed more content from its users? Haha, thank god I didn't subscribe to this website this year. Sad thing is I really believed in this website too. It all went downhill July 2008...

    I get the feeling that owners of this website don't even care what we, the users, have to say. Actually scratch that, I know they don't.

    Someday the dream will end
  • Re: Re:Re:Refunds!

    ClocklessHours said:
    acreature said:
    Just to be clear, your playlists, tags, and loved tracks aren't going anywhere. It's the playability that's going.

    Then what's the point of having them?
    Tags feed the Last.fm ecosystem (recommendations, categorisation, global tag stations) and give you new ways to explore your data (such as browsing your library by tags). As for loved tracks and playlists, well – people like lists, either by theme (playlists) or just a way of showing off what they love. I know this sounds lame but people used these features in the days when they weren't playable on Last.fm, and we've got loads of non-subscribers who build playlists and lists of loved tracks.

  • And no, I can't tell you that the change is making Last.fm better. Sadly, it is a necessary change. "Why?" is your next question. "Business reasons," is the next answer, which sounds vague but I can't give more details, sadly. I'm as open as I can be, but every business has private internal details.

    It doesn't give me much hope for the future of last.fm, but this at least is honest. Which is an improvement.

    • DoctorT said...
    • User
    • 21 Oct 2010, 23:07

    Re:Re:Refunds!

    acreature said:
    pogopatterson said:
    55 Playlists, some for myself, the rest to amuse my page visitors. That's hours of effort, a refund will not make up for that.

    Just to be clear, your playlists, tags, and loved tracks aren't going anywhere. It's the playability that's going. You'll still be able to view, edit, and create your personalised lists – and as Knapster01's said, we're investigating ways to let you play them on other services. I know it's not as good as the current service, but hopefully it softens the blow.


    The sole reason I love tracks, tag tracks, and make playlists is for the purpose of hearing loved tracks, personal tag stations, and playlists. I do not love, tag and create playlists as an intellectual game or just to make lists because I can.

    My subscription just ran out - I will not be resubscribing. I have been supporting Last.fm almost from the first time it allowed donations - when donations where in fact donations and not a subscription.

    November 17th may not be the day the music died, but it will be the day when the music gets seriously injured (after getting injured first with the loss of full-track playback).


    Music, like language, is universal.
  • warning for last.fm

    These few dozens of angry, loud, crazy users who are around this forum for a while (including myself) are only the tip of the iceberg dear last.fm managers!

    If I look at randomly to any kind of active subscriber, 99% of them have loved tracks, tags and/or playlists and I am sure vast majority of them using them for streaming.

    You really risk of losing all your dedicated, "apostle" type of customers and convert them to "terrorist" type of customers. This is a nightmare for any kind of enterprise. (unless this is the goal)

    You underestimate the power of social networks...

    Do you have the illusion that after this we will stay with you in any format?

    Just a suggestion: make a public survey (eg. on surveymonkey) regarding these plans, invite all paying subscribers and .... share us the result.

    • pavskies said...
    • Subscriber
    • 21 Oct 2010, 23:11
    I would love to see the statistics on the amount of users who refunded their subscriptions. Lots of money will be lost by Last.fm here.

    Someday the dream will end
  • "Why?" is your next question. "Business reasons," is the next answer, which sounds vague but I can't give more details, sadly. I'm as open as I can be, but every business has private internal details.

    It's funny that back when last.fm was acquired by CBS, CNET reported that nothing good would come of it. CNET, also owned by CBS, is currently losing top hosts weekly. My two favorite online sites losing key hosts and features. Is there a connection? CBS maybe? I know labels can be a PITA, but if Rdio and Slacker can make deals to stream on demand, I don't see where LFM couldn't make the same deals unless it's not in CBS's interests.

  • WrenchinMusic said:
    if Rdio and Slacker can make deals to stream on demand, I don't see where LFM couldn't make the same deals unless it's not in CBS's interests.


    Exactly.

  • Just signed up for a free trial with MOG and if I like it, I'll be giving them the subscription money I would have given to last.fm. Not that you probably care, because there's probably a whole ton of licensing fees and corporate money changing hands behind the scenes and subscribers don't count for shit in web 2.0, but you've lost me permanently.

    'Last.fm is a music service powered entirely by its community of listeners.' You should really take that down, because it's not true anymore.

  • Can you come back and tell me what you think of MOG, from your free trial?

    I'm going to wring out every last day of playlist-playing time from this subscription, and then I'll be on the market for a new service...

  • Re:alternatives

    Pedro_71 said:
    The problem is that some other places like Pandora is not available outside the U.S.
    Any suggestion for EU based listeners?


    Actually, based on a friend's suggestion, I'll now be using MOG.

    Spotify?

  • lizvelrene said:
    WrenchinMusic said:
    if Rdio and Slacker can make deals to stream on demand, I don't see where LFM couldn't make the same deals unless it's not in CBS's interests.


    Exactly.

    MOG streams on-demand in CD quality.

    Edited by ClocklessHours on 21 Oct 2010, 23:22
  • lizvelrene said:
    Can you come back and tell me what you think of MOG, from your free trial?


    Sure!

    I'm going to wring out every last day of playlist-playing time from this subscription, and then I'll be on the market for a new service...

    Me too. My subscription runs out in 2 weeks, so I'll miss I think about a week and a half of streaming tracks, but I don't want to give them even $3 for one month more at this point.

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