CBS handed over USER DATA (including IP addresses) to the RIAA

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- Russ said...
- Alumni
- 23 May 2009, 21:02
Nothing I can say will convince you that this didn't happen, because allegedly CBS did the deed and not us. I hope that CBS will issue their own denial soon, but the wheels of large companies run slowly.

This accusation was made the evening before a three-day holiday weekend in both the UK and the US. Yet again, we were not given the opportunity to respond.

The article claims that "This source’s information comes directly from Last.fm employees who he has spoken with." Nobody at Last.fm knows anything about such a leak. We didn't when they last wrote an article, and we don't now. Any suggestion that we were complicit in transferring user data to any third party is incorrect.

The exact nature of the data that was allegedly transferred is still not clear. It's implied that the data linked scrobbles to IP addresses. That particular data is controlled tightly inside Last.fm and is only stored for a short period of time. Any request for such data would have to be approved by myself first. The suggestion that CBS's ops team provided this data is just not possible - Last.fm operates as a separate entity and their operations staff do not have access to our system.

As Arrington points out, transferring personally identifiable data from the UK to the US is against data protection laws. We wouldn't risk a lawsuit to pander to the RIAA's requests.

It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.

[quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: Nothing I can say will convince you that this didn't happen, because allegedly CBS did the deed and not us. I hope that CBS will issue their own denial soon, but the wheels of large companies run slowly. This accusation was made the evening before a three-day holiday weekend in both the UK and the US. Yet again, we were not given the opportunity to respond. The article claims that "This source’s information comes directly from Last.fm employees who he has spoken with." Nobody at Last.fm knows anything about such a leak. We didn't when they last wrote an article, and we don't now. Any suggestion that we were complicit in transferring user data to any third party is incorrect. The exact nature of the data that was allegedly transferred is still not clear. It's implied that the data linked scrobbles to IP addresses. That particular data is controlled tightly inside Last.fm and is only stored for a short period of time. Any request for such data would have to be approved by myself first. The suggestion that CBS's ops team provided this data is just not possible - Last.fm operates as a separate entity and their operations staff do not have access to our system. As Arrington points out, transferring personally identifiable data from the UK to the US is against data protection laws. We wouldn't risk a lawsuit to pander to the RIAA's requests. It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.[/quote]
Edited by Russ on 25 May 2009, 14:41

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- said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:06
Thanks Russ.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] said: Thanks Russ.[/quote]

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- oddworldinc said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:09
Lots of info here, thanks Russ.

[quote][b][user]oddworldinc[/user][/b] said: Lots of info here, thanks Russ.[/quote]

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- alexmuller said...
- Subscriber
- 23 May 2009, 21:10
Russ said:
It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.Thank you for the update. Go for the jugular on this, please...

[quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.[/quote]Thank you for the update. Go for the jugular on this, please...[/quote]

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- Babs_05 said...
- Forum Moderator
- 23 May 2009, 21:17
Thanks, Russ.

Just to double-check - is it possible for CBS to 'trick' you into handing over data, as the article seems to imply?

Central Point Albums 11 Music To Fall Asleep To Next Big Things - NBTs
Nov 11 | Reco of the Week - Jon Kennedy – The Goose Is Getting Fat

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: Thanks, Russ. Just to double-check - is it possible for CBS to 'trick' you into handing over data, as the article seems to imply?[/quote]

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- Russ said...
- Alumni
- 23 May 2009, 21:19
Babs_05 said:
Just to double-check - is it possible for CBS to 'trick' you into handing over data, as the article seems to imply?

They'd still have to ask for the data linking scrobblers to IP addresses, which they have not done. Asking for that data would raise red flags on my end...

[quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: Just to double-check - is it possible for CBS to 'trick' you into handing over data, as the article seems to imply?[/quote] They'd still have to ask for the data linking scrobblers to IP addresses, which they have not done. Asking for that data would raise red flags on my end...[/quote]

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- morti-viventi said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:20
SUE THE FUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS

I'm so fed up with TechCrunch's polemic bullshit masquerading as journalism. They might as well be TMZ.

you're a pro tool.

[quote][b][user]morti-viventi[/user][/b] said: I'm so fed up with TechCrunch's polemic bullshit masquerading as journalism. They might as well be TMZ.[/quote]

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- WichitaQ said...
- Subscriber
- 23 May 2009, 21:22
damn. no cat fight.

(a joke, thanks for clearing it out :D)

[quote][b][user]WichitaQ[/user][/b] said: damn. no cat fight. (a joke, thanks for clearing it out :D)[/quote]

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- Babs_05 said...
- Forum Moderator
- 23 May 2009, 21:22
Russ said:
Babs_05 said:
Just to double-check - is it possible for CBS to 'trick' you into handing over data, as the article seems to imply?

They'd still have to ask for the data linking scrobblers to IP addresses, which they have not done. Asking for that data would raise red flags on my end...That's what I thought. Thanks.

As alexmuller says, Go for the jugular on this, please...

Central Point Albums 11 Music To Fall Asleep To Next Big Things - NBTs
Nov 11 | Reco of the Week - Jon Kennedy – The Goose Is Getting Fat

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: Just to double-check - is it possible for CBS to 'trick' you into handing over data, as the article seems to imply?[/quote] They'd still have to ask for the data linking scrobblers to IP addresses, which they have not done. Asking for that data would raise red flags on my end...[/quote]That's what I thought. Thanks. As alexmuller says, Go for the jugular on this, please...[/quote]

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- Rockyoursox said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:30
How is TechCrunch still operating?
Are you guys planning on attacking the site legally?

Thanks Russ! I knew that would be the case.

deak.es

[quote][b][user]Rockyoursox[/user][/b] said: How is TechCrunch still operating? Are you guys planning on attacking the site legally? Thanks Russ! I knew that would be the case.[/quote]

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- JeroenKlomp said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:30
over & out

Jamendo * PixiesPalace * LastTV * DandelionRadio * LastTube * AntiWilders * LastFmChat * PeopleVsLoudnessWar * Libre.Fm * CreativeCommons
Zeitgeist: The Movies & More guide

[quote][b][user]JeroenKlomp[/user][/b] said: over & out[/quote]

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- CreativeSpaz said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:32
Thanks for clearing that up, Russ.

Now Techcrunch looks like the bunch of fuckwits they are. I third going for the jugular.

[quote][b][user]CreativeSpaz[/user][/b] said: Thanks for clearing that up, Russ. Now Techcrunch looks like the bunch of fuckwits they are. I third going for the jugular.[/quote]

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- WichitaQ said...
- Subscriber
- 23 May 2009, 21:36
Rockyoursox said:
Are you guys planning on attacking the site legally?

ever saw the EU vs. Microsoft battle?
too looong and i doubt last.fm could afford it now. (although i would like too see them packt like sardines in a crushd tin box)

but seriously, those guys get 200000$ of revenue each month and if they mostly achieve it by this kind of slaunders, i say last.fm should get something in return for it :)

[quote][b][user]WichitaQ[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Rockyoursox[/user][/b] said: Are you guys planning on attacking the site legally?[/quote] ever saw the EU vs. Microsoft battle? too looong and i doubt last.fm could afford it now. (although i would like too see them packt like sardines in a crushd tin box) but seriously, those guys get 200000$ of revenue each month and if they mostly achieve it by this kind of slaunders, i say last.fm should get something in return for it :)[/quote]

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- Rockyoursox said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:39
Slanderous material 24/7 ... I know its the internet but this kind of lies is company destroying, and TC seem to always get away with it and its fanboys try to jump on the bandwagon and make it something bigger than it always is.

Surely a small payment is due.

deak.es

[quote][b][user]Rockyoursox[/user][/b] said: Slanderous material 24/7 ... I know its the internet but this kind of lies is company destroying, and TC seem to always get away with it and its fanboys try to jump on the bandwagon and make it something bigger than it always is. Surely a small payment is due.[/quote]

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- Babs_05 said...
- Forum Moderator
- 23 May 2009, 21:41
TechCrunch are the internet equivalent of the gutter press. For us, that would be like The Sun, although actually, even The Sun wouldn't print crap like this. They're a gutter blog, if there is such a term. No cred, no one respects them. Can't go after them legally, so the only thing to do is go after their reputation, which is already in tatters...

Central Point Albums 11 Music To Fall Asleep To Next Big Things - NBTs
Nov 11 | Reco of the Week - Jon Kennedy – The Goose Is Getting Fat

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: TechCrunch are the internet equivalent of the gutter press. For us, that would be like [url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/]The Sun[/url], although actually, even The Sun wouldn't print crap like this. They're a gutter blog, if there is such a term. No cred, no one respects them. Can't go after them legally, so the only thing to do is go after their reputation, which is already in tatters...[/quote]

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- Penish said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:43
they hooked you guys up to skynet, THAT's the problem

join us!

irc.last.fm/#chat currenly accepting new coolcats

[quote][b][user]Penish[/user][/b] said: they hooked you guys up to skynet, THAT's the problem[/quote]

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- PittPanthersFan said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 21:56
Russ said:
It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.

So pursue legal discourse. It's the only way to put these allegations completely to bed.

Thanks for the update.

Veritas et Virtus

[quote][b][user]PittPanthersFan[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.[/quote] [u]So pursue legal discourse.[/u] It's the only way to put these allegations completely to bed. Thanks for the update.[/quote]

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- ToBurySecretsIn said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 22:03
As usual, some stupid blog makes claims with no evidence to back it up. People on the internet take it as fact and get all angry and start deleting accounts (accounts they probably don't even use anyway), sending angry emails, etc. finally, it comes to light that the blog made the whole thing up and everybody who deleted their account or sent angry emails ends up looking like an idiot that believes everything they read online. I'm pretty sure this happens at least once a month on the internet.

[quote][b][user]ToBurySecretsIn[/user][/b] said: As usual, some stupid blog makes claims with no evidence to back it up. People on the internet take it as fact and get all angry and start deleting accounts (accounts they probably don't even use anyway), sending angry emails, etc. finally, it comes to light that the blog made the whole thing up and everybody who deleted their account or sent angry emails ends up looking like an idiot that believes everything they read online. I'm pretty sure this happens at least once a month on the internet.[/quote]

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- WichitaQ said...
- Subscriber
- 23 May 2009, 22:07
PittPanthersFan said:
So pursue legal discourse. It's the only way to put these allegations completely to bed.

i wouldn't be surprised if there is a part of their page which states "TechCrunch does not take legal responsibility for any information available on the page, blablablabla"
Babs already mentioned the sun... don't you think someone would have shut them down if they could? it's the same situation i believe.

[quote][b][user]WichitaQ[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]PittPanthersFan[/user][/b] said: [u]So pursue legal discourse.[/u] It's the only way to put these allegations completely to bed.[/quote] i wouldn't be surprised if there is a part of their page which states "TechCrunch does not take legal responsibility for any information available on the page, blablablabla" Babs already mentioned the sun... don't you think someone would have shut them down if they could? it's the same situation i believe.[/quote]

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- nautis said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 22:14
Thanks for your response, Russ. I've been using last.fm since 2004 and love the service. It was incredibly innovative for the time and you guys have surprised me by your continued innovation. I hope the rumors are not true and that this will be cleared up soon.

Matthew

[quote][b][user]nautis[/user][/b] said: Thanks for your response, Russ. I've been using last.fm since 2004 and love the service. It was incredibly innovative for the time and you guys have surprised me by your continued innovation. I hope the rumors are not true and that this will be cleared up soon. Matthew[/quote]

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- PittPanthersFan said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 22:19
WichitaQ said:
Babs already mentioned the sun... don't you think someone would have shut them down if they could? it's the same situation i believe.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but celebrities go after tabloids for falsified allegations all the time. I know it's apples to oranges, but it's the only way to silence TechCrunch once and for all.

I wouldn't expect to see any legal action though unless TechCrunch's allegation really takes off and it's not just us on the forums that are worked up over it.

Veritas et Virtus

[quote][b][user]PittPanthersFan[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]WichitaQ[/user][/b] said: Babs already mentioned the sun... don't you think someone would have shut them down if they could? it's the same situation i believe.[/quote] I'm not saying it would be easy, but celebrities go after tabloids for falsified allegations all the time. I know it's apples to oranges, but it's the only way to silence TechCrunch once and for all. I wouldn't expect to see any legal action though unless TechCrunch's allegation really takes off and it's not just us on the forums that are worked up over it.[/quote]

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- HodgeStar said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 22:36
alexmuller said:
Russ said:
It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.Thank you for the update. Go for the jugular on this, please...we better congratulate Russ on his objectiveness. he carefully avoided calling names when he said "someone".

thanks for reassurance, Russ!

[quote][b][user]HodgeStar[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: It really seems like someone is trying to slander us here.[/quote]Thank you for the update. Go for the jugular on this, please...[/quote]we better congratulate Russ on his objectiveness. he carefully avoided calling names when he said "someone". thanks for reassurance, Russ![/quote]

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- Jalmar-85 said...
- User
- 23 May 2009, 22:40
I'll trust Russ over some random blogger. Cheers, and good night.

Så god er ingen at han er uten feil, eller så ussel at han ingenting kan - Håvamål

[quote][b][user]Jalmar-85[/user][/b] said: I'll trust Russ over some random blogger. Cheers, and good night.[/quote]

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- Babs_05 said...
- Forum Moderator
- 23 May 2009, 22:44
TC aren't the only ones, there are all sorts of examples of bad / lazy journalism on the internet. It's like they just can't be arsed. From our point of view, it means it's harder to find credible articles. TC have The Washington Post pointing to them whenever possible, which doesn't help, because you'd think they're a quality paper. But it's the internet, so I suppose they don't care, as long as they get page views.

I think Last.fm did pretty well with their response last time. This time, the article is after CBS, so I suppose it's up to CBS to say something.

On the other hand, you know, we could view the TC article as little more than trolling and not feed them. I mean, I'm satisfied no laws have been broken and my data's safe.

People getting worked up on the internet = passes for bank holiday weekend entertainment 2009. :D

Central Point Albums 11 Music To Fall Asleep To Next Big Things - NBTs
Nov 11 | Reco of the Week - Jon Kennedy – The Goose Is Getting Fat

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: TC aren't the only ones, there are all sorts of examples of bad / lazy journalism on the internet. It's like they just can't be arsed. From our point of view, it means it's harder to find credible articles. TC have The Washington Post pointing to them whenever possible, which doesn't help, because you'd think they're a quality paper. But it's the internet, so I suppose they don't care, as long as they get page views. I think Last.fm did pretty well with their response last time. This time, the article is after CBS, so I suppose it's up to CBS to say something. On the other hand, you know, we could view the TC article as little more than trolling and not feed them. I mean, I'm satisfied no laws have been broken and my data's safe. People getting worked up on the internet = passes for bank holiday weekend entertainment 2009. :D[/quote]

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- Babs_05 said...
- Forum Moderator
- 23 May 2009, 22:46
off-topic

Russ - how did you edit your post 5 hours before you wrote it?? (timestamps seem to be off) :)

Central Point Albums 11 Music To Fall Asleep To Next Big Things - NBTs
Nov 11 | Reco of the Week - Jon Kennedy – The Goose Is Getting Fat

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: Russ - how did you edit your post 5 hours before you wrote it?? (timestamps seem to be off) :)[/quote]

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