May 20 Site Update

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- buzz-in said...
- Subscriber
- 20 May 2009, 23:23
Babs_05 said:
buzz-in said:
Surely if spotify can make it a viable business out of playing albums to people for free, so can you? not a viable argument. because Spotify still have wads of venture capital to burn through. wait 12 months, when that's all gone, then see. Also, they only have 1-2 million users. It's not a fair comparison yet. And thirdly, they don't define themselves as internet radio, so therefore they don't have to comply with all those awful rules. Although quite how they get round their (crappy) genre radios is beyond me.
Ahh, okay. Consider me enlightened.

[quote][b][user]buzz-in[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]buzz-in[/user][/b] said: Surely if spotify can make it a viable business out of playing albums to people for free, so can you?[/quote] not a viable argument. because Spotify still have wads of venture capital to burn through. wait 12 months, when that's all gone, then see. Also, they only have 1-2 million users. It's not a fair comparison yet. And thirdly, they don't define themselves as internet radio, so therefore they don't have to comply with all those awful rules. Although quite how they get round their (crappy) genre radios is beyond me.[/quote] Ahh, okay. Consider me enlightened.[/quote]

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- pavskies said...
- User
- 20 May 2009, 23:24
What's with the videos at the top right hand corner of artist pages? Having videos there are kind of pointless if you ask me.

dreams can come true, it can happen to you

[quote][b][user]pavskies[/user][/b] said: What's with the videos at the top right hand corner of artist pages? Having videos there are kind of pointless if you ask me. [/quote]

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- [Deleted user] said...
- User
- 20 May 2009, 23:27
Group Profile Updates Disabled

Has this post gone unnoticed?niknieuwenhuis said:
not sure if this is a known problem. but I cannot seem to change the info from my group. it say's "Your changes have been saved. " but nothing is savedI am experiencing the same problem since the update. Can you please fix the group profile updates? Thanks.

(Oh my is this going to mess with my reply tracker ...)

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] said: [color=red][b]Has this post gone unnoticed?[/b][/color][quote][b][user]niknieuwenhuis[/user][/b] said: not sure if this is a known problem. but I cannot seem to change the info from my group. it say's "Your changes have been saved. " but nothing is saved[/quote]I am experiencing the same problem since the update. Can you please fix the group profile updates? Thanks. (Oh my is this going to mess with my reply tracker ...)[/quote]

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- arabhorse said...
- User
- 20 May 2009, 23:45
pavskies said:
What's with the videos at the top right hand corner of artist pages? Having videos there are kind of pointless if you ask me.

Yeah...good point Pavskies, why take away the music and just link to YouTube?

I'm sorry, but my band's not big enough to have millions of dollars to spot up for an MTV video...we're only small-timers, I guess. Our band only does music, on albums...what a concept, eh? SO...now if I want a player, it has to be a video player only? How does that make sense? I'm not a movie director.

Maybe...a clever workaround would be to put my artist mp3s into a video format, kinda like people do with the hit songs, the song playing in the background and the lyrics or artist pics occupying the visual space? It's a waste of bandwidth, but hell...at least it'll allow people to hear my music. Thanks, Last.fm.

All in all, you guys *were* the best for streaming and discovering new music. That's your niche; it's why I came here, stayed, liked it enough to upload music and participate. It's why I'm lobbying hard...when I cease to care, I'll just fall silent and move on like so many others. Ironic, just as you hit the 'big time', you lose your raison d'etre, the thing that got you there to begin with. Funny, you say that actions speak louder than words...and you say how important we are, how important the site is to you...then your actions are a slap to the face (being polite here, others have put it more graphically) and undermine the site's identity and ultimate success. You're a music site...and you're tone deaf.

I do like what Babs_05 said:

Also, and I don't want this to get lost in all the complaints - your site is fantastic for album listens. Simply superb. You've thrown the baby out with the bath water. Your surveys mean jack.

I second that opinion. MySpace was clumsy at that and didn't offer all the features or the music discovery based on listening habits angle. The other listening habit sites all had some major flaw from either a listener or artist perspective. The message is: do what you do well, don't let that get lost in all the new features, and ESPECIALLY don't yank the features that made you unique for album and artist discovery. I've already got a MySpace and Facebook account, as well as a YouTube. My educated guess is that a large percentage of your other users do too.

Arabhorse / Kroakers
-
-
~~Down in the hole, Jesus tries to crack a smile....beneath another shovel load~~

[quote][b][user]arabhorse[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]pavskies[/user][/b] said: What's with the videos at the top right hand corner of artist pages? Having videos there are kind of pointless if you ask me. [/quote] Yeah...good point Pavskies, why take away the music and just link to YouTube? I'm sorry, but my band's not big enough to have millions of dollars to spot up for an MTV video...we're only small-timers, I guess. Our band only does music, on albums...what a concept, eh? SO...now if I want a player, it has to be a video player only? How does that make sense? I'm not a movie director. Maybe...a clever workaround would be to put my artist mp3s into a video format, kinda like people do with the hit songs, the song playing in the background and the lyrics or artist pics occupying the visual space? It's a waste of bandwidth, but hell...at least it'll allow people to hear my music. Thanks, Last.fm. All in all, you guys *were* the best for streaming and discovering new music. That's your niche; it's why I came here, stayed, liked it enough to upload music and participate. It's why I'm lobbying hard...when I cease to care, I'll just fall silent and move on like so many others. Ironic, just as you hit the 'big time', you lose your raison d'etre, the thing that got you there to begin with. Funny, you say that actions speak louder than words...and you say how important we are, how important the site is to you...then your actions are a slap to the face (being polite here, others have put it more graphically) and undermine the site's identity and ultimate success. You're a music site...and you're tone deaf. I do like what Babs_05 said: [quote]Also, and I don't want this to get lost in all the complaints - your site is fantastic for album listens. Simply superb. You've thrown the baby out with the bath water. Your surveys mean jack.[/quote] I second that opinion. MySpace was clumsy at that and didn't offer all the features or the music discovery based on listening habits angle. The other listening habit sites all had some major flaw from either a listener or artist perspective. The message is: do what you do well, don't let that get lost in all the new features, and ESPECIALLY don't yank the features that made you unique for album and artist discovery. I've already got a MySpace and Facebook account, as well as a YouTube. My educated guess is that a large percentage of your other users do too.[/quote]

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- MoogleFan said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 00:08
Wow, this is a really inconvenient move. My Last.fm album pages were good listening options for people that aren't familiar with ZIPs/RARs or that just wanted to play it through without downloading. Even though clicking to tracks isn't a hassle for me, I think more casual listeners may be discouraged in checking things out. I also listened to albums in-page quite often, and now I will probably choose other alternatives to do this. The radio service, the ability to tag tracks, and stats-watching appear to be the last dregs of greatness on this site. =/

[quote][b][user]MoogleFan[/user][/b] said: Wow, this is a really inconvenient move. My Last.fm album pages were good listening options for people that aren't familiar with ZIPs/RARs or that just wanted to play it through without downloading. Even though clicking to tracks isn't a hassle for me, I think more casual listeners may be discouraged in checking things out. I also listened to albums in-page quite often, and now I will probably choose other alternatives to do this. The radio service, the ability to tag tracks, and stats-watching appear to be the last dregs of greatness on this site. =/[/quote]

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- ednaha said...
- Subscriber
- 21 May 2009, 00:26
I have to admit, this comes across as a fairly idiotic change and one that means inconvenience for the listener. I know it might shock some of the site's staff to realize this but, quite often, folks listen to Last.fm on a second screen whilst working on the first. If I want to listen to four tracks of, let's say, Moby Grape (okay, I've said it!), with the old "box" I could just play five tracks without opening up a separate page for each track. Listening to music isn't supposed to be work, leap-frogging from track page to track page as if this was an Olympic event. (C'mon, even old record players had spindles so each song/record could drop down after one another and you weren't changing records every three minutes.) Plus, not having the song's length listed is pretty shoddy, too.

[quote][b][user]ednaha[/user][/b] said: I have to admit, this comes across as a fairly idiotic change and one that means inconvenience for the listener. I know it might shock some of the site's staff to realize this but, quite often, folks listen to Last.fm on a second screen whilst working on the first. If I want to listen to four tracks of, let's say, Moby Grape (okay, I've said it!), with the old "box" I could just play five tracks without opening up a separate page for each track. Listening to music isn't supposed to be work, leap-frogging from track page to track page as if this was an Olympic event. (C'mon, even old record players had spindles so each song/record could drop down after one another and you weren't changing records every three minutes.) Plus, not having the song's length listed is pretty shoddy, too.[/quote]

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- arabhorse said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 00:27
Agreed, MoogleFan...and even the radio service is starting to flag, only available in 3 countries now...and there are some flaws even if you're in one of those countries.

Arabhorse / Kroakers
-
-
~~Down in the hole, Jesus tries to crack a smile....beneath another shovel load~~

[quote][b][user]arabhorse[/user][/b] said: Agreed, MoogleFan...and even the radio service is starting to flag, only available in 3 countries now...and there are some flaws even if you're in one of those countries.[/quote]

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- yourpassenger said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 00:27
The removal of the player from artist pages is an absolute joke. What the hell are you thinking?! Nobody is going to sit there clicking through track pages, it's a pain in the ass, you're quicker going to myspace! And you've replaced the player with a video section, what the fuck, if i want to watch artists videos i'll go to youtube.

get a grip, you're slowly ruining this once great site.

Weekly Top 3

[quote][b][user]yourpassenger[/user][/b] said: The removal of the player from artist pages is an absolute joke. What the hell are you thinking?! Nobody is going to sit there clicking through track pages, it's a pain in the ass, you're quicker going to myspace! And you've replaced the player with a video section, what the fuck, if i want to watch artists videos i'll go to youtube. get a grip, you're slowly ruining this once great site.[/quote]

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- arabhorse said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 00:31
Great point.

Also...THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO INCREASE PAGE VIEWS - HOW ABOUT IMPROVING YOUR CONTENT?

It's pretty disingenuous to try and increase page views by making it HARDER for listeners/users. That's what pisses me off - that this is pitched as something that makes it 'easier' for new people, when all it does is increase inconvenience. It was admitted that page views need to increase (even though that was patently obvious), but the way to do that isn't to play around with the site's structure...that's a cheap strategy, short-term, and is likely to backfire. How about making things more interesting to click? That's better than making people navigate a maze. People are going to lose patience.

Making it easier for new visitors...LMAO, how preposterous and disingenuous. We're not idiots, Russ.

Arabhorse / Kroakers
-
-
~~Down in the hole, Jesus tries to crack a smile....beneath another shovel load~~

[quote][b][user]arabhorse[/user][/b] said: Great point. Also...THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO INCREASE PAGE VIEWS - HOW ABOUT IMPROVING YOUR CONTENT? It's pretty disingenuous to try and increase page views by making it HARDER for listeners/users. That's what pisses me off - that this is pitched as something that makes it 'easier' for new people, when all it does is increase inconvenience. It was admitted that page views need to increase (even though that was patently obvious), but the way to do that isn't to play around with the site's structure...that's a cheap strategy, short-term, and is likely to backfire. How about making things more interesting to click? That's better than making people navigate a maze. People are going to lose patience. Making it easier for new visitors...LMAO, how preposterous and disingenuous. We're not idiots, Russ.[/quote]

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- jeb42 said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 01:36
Some hypothetical questions: if this move still doesn't cover the streaming costs, is there a "Plan C" already drawn up? Is it possible for us to know what it would be before it comes?

Also, for the really old timers: what was audioscrobbler like before there was streaming music?

[quote][b][user]jeb42[/user][/b] said: Some hypothetical questions: if this move still doesn't cover the streaming costs, is there a "[i]Plan C[/i]" already drawn up? Is it possible for us to know what it would be before it comes? Also, for the really old timers: what was audioscrobbler like before there was streaming music?[/quote]

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- muddyromantic said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 01:50
I remember there being really strange bugs on the old Audioscrobbler site. One in particular doubled the plays for random tracks. I had one song that I had played about 50 times, and it was doubled to a little over 100, putting it in second place in my tracks chart. That was kind of annoying. My boyfriend says he remembers have issues with tracks that wouldn't scrobble until, like, two weeks after he listened to them.

I don't really remember much else other than the layout was light blue and white. And weekly artist and track charts were displayed on the profile.

[quote][b][user]muddyromantic[/user][/b] said: I remember there being really strange bugs on the old Audioscrobbler site. One in particular doubled the plays for random tracks. I had one song that I had played about 50 times, and it was doubled to a little over 100, putting it in second place in my tracks chart. That was kind of annoying. My boyfriend says he remembers have issues with tracks that wouldn't scrobble until, like, two weeks after he listened to them. I don't really remember much else other than the layout was light blue and white. And weekly artist and track charts were displayed on the profile.[/quote]

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- solsamurai said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 02:01
good bye last.fm....

i'm a relatively new user and this move makes no sense at all. until today this site was great for checking out all kinds of music. now it's absolutely TERRIBLE and confusing to use. it's been said already but music sites are about MUSIC DAMMIT! that's the only reason i come to this site....well not anymore. this ruined my day. thanks a bunch...

so very sad. :. (

[quote][b][user]solsamurai[/user][/b] said: i'm a relatively new user and this move makes no sense at all. until today this site was great for checking out all kinds of music. now it's absolutely TERRIBLE and confusing to use. it's been said already but music sites are about MUSIC DAMMIT! that's the only reason i come to this site....well not anymore. this ruined my day. thanks a bunch... so very sad. :. ( [/quote]

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- Bloopy said...
- Subscriber
- 21 May 2009, 02:37
yourpassenger said:
Nobody is going to sit there clicking through track pages, it's a pain in the assI am, because I still want to listen to albums, and I'm an extremely tolerant person to the point of patheticness. At least someone's bound to write a Greasemonkey script to ease the pain.

Surely at least subscribers could get the album page player back...

It's Halloween all year round over here: Chronic Halloween Syndrome

[quote][b][user]Bloopy[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]yourpassenger[/user][/b] said: Nobody is going to sit there clicking through track pages, it's a pain in the ass[/quote]I am, because I still want to listen to albums, and I'm an extremely tolerant person to the point of patheticness. At least someone's bound to write a Greasemonkey script to ease the pain. Surely at least subscribers could get the album page player back...[/quote]

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- _oao said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 02:38
WTF happened to the Similar Tracks in the Tracks Pages?

[quote][b][user]_oao[/user][/b] said: WTF happened to the [i]Similar Tracks[/i] in the Tracks Pages?[/quote]

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- Nectar_Card said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 02:50
mjreynolds said:
How was last.fm so profitable and feature rich before the CBS sellout, and immediately afterward, suddenly couldn't afford jack, and had to disable features, and then start forcing various countries to pay to listen?

Because the 3 guys who founded Last.fm were running Last.fm at a loss. They then sold it to CBS for $280m. Thus recouping their losses and still having many millions of dollars left over.

Now that CBS is the owner, Last.fm for the first time now has to start making a profit. Richard, Martin and the other guy don't care about the users because they have had their big fat pay day.

Like Minimal Techno? ---> You'll love High on Electronic Music
Have diverse and non-mainstream taste in music? ---> See if you qualify for The 1 Percenters group....

[quote][b][user]Nectar_Card[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]mjreynolds[/user][/b] said: How was last.fm so profitable and feature rich before the CBS sellout, and immediately afterward, suddenly couldn't afford jack, and had to disable features, and then start forcing various countries to pay to listen? [/quote] Because the 3 guys who founded Last.fm were running Last.fm at a loss. They then sold it to CBS for $280m. Thus recouping their losses and still having many millions of dollars left over. Now that CBS is the owner, Last.fm for the first time now has to start making a profit. Richard, Martin and the other guy don't care about the users because they have had their big fat pay day. [/quote]

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- Nectar_Card said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 03:00
Russ said:
Babs_05 said:
and 2) why didn't you talk to us?

Because it wouldn't have made any difference.
.

The breathtaking arrogance and stupidity of that comment really sums up last.fm's problems in the last year or two.

Like Minimal Techno? ---> You'll love High on Electronic Music
Have diverse and non-mainstream taste in music? ---> See if you qualify for The 1 Percenters group....

[quote][b][user]Nectar_Card[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: and 2) why didn't you talk to us?[/quote] Because it wouldn't have made any difference. .[/quote] The breathtaking arrogance and stupidity of that comment really sums up last.fm's problems in the last year or two. [/quote]

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- jbgd said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 07:22
This change is a serious stab in the back of small or unsigned bands. Really.

People have said why.

[quote][b][user]jbgd[/user][/b] said: This change is a serious stab in the back of small or unsigned bands. Really. People have said why. [/quote]

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- theoryjean said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 07:33
so, i cant listen to albums anymore? and to listen to an artists music, i have to go to each track's page? i really dont understand the purpose. that was one of the main things i liked about last.fm, and also, people that i would introduce to last.fm or that i would tell them to go to last.fm to check an artist out and they have never been on the site before, the first thing they would do is click that big play button at the top right. now, its not there, they'd be lost and wouldnt know how to listen! im so so so so disappointed. makes it so much more difficult to hear artists music. boo again. please change it back.

...et que la musique de ton coeur fasse danser ta vie

join my groups:
'i am a wack MC' , 'dj setup' , 'songs that make you feel better' , 'music to fall asleep to' , 'instrumental music' , 'my music is older than i am' , 'shows and concerts' , 'being sober to make music to be sober to'
www.hifi5entertainment.com
<<facebook>>

[quote][b][user]theoryjean[/user][/b] said: so, i cant listen to albums anymore? and to listen to an artists music, i have to go to each track's page? i really dont understand the purpose. that was one of the main things i liked about last.fm, and also, people that i would introduce to last.fm or that i would tell them to go to last.fm to check an artist out and they have never been on the site before, the first thing they would do is click that big play button at the top right. now, its not there, they'd be lost and wouldnt know how to listen! im so so so so disappointed. makes it so much more difficult to hear artists music. boo again. please change it back.[/quote]

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- HairMetalAddict said...
- Subscriber
- 21 May 2009, 07:38
Re: Group Profile Updates Disabled

mvordeme said:
Has this post gone unnoticed?niknieuwenhuis said:
not sure if this is a known problem. but I cannot seem to change the info from my group. it say's "Your changes have been saved. " but nothing is savedI am experiencing the same problem since the update. Can you please fix the group profile updates? Thanks.

(Oh my is this going to mess with my reply tracker ...)

It's not gone unnoticed, just lost in this thread. I reported this to staff last night through moderator channels and know they're aware of it. A bug reported earlier yesterday with groups was fixed pretty quick the same day, so I'm sure they'll have this taken care of as quickly as they can considering it's a necessity to group management.

...

[quote][b][user]HairMetalAddict[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]mvordeme[/user][/b] said: [color=red][b]Has this post gone unnoticed?[/b][/color][quote][b][user]niknieuwenhuis[/user][/b] said: not sure if this is a known problem. but I cannot seem to change the info from my group. it say's "Your changes have been saved. " but nothing is saved[/quote]I am experiencing the same problem since the update. Can you please fix the group profile updates? Thanks. (Oh my is this going to mess with my reply tracker ...)[/quote] It's not gone unnoticed, just lost in this thread. I reported this to staff last night through moderator channels and know they're aware of it. A bug reported earlier yesterday with groups was fixed pretty quick the same day, so I'm sure they'll have this taken care of as quickly as they can considering it's a necessity to group management.[/quote]

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- [Deleted user] said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 07:48
I'm leaving this site.
This is crap!

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] said: I'm leaving this site. This is crap! [/quote]

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- buzz-in said...
- Subscriber
- 21 May 2009, 08:12
Sign the petition here.
http://www.last.fm/user/buzz-in/journal

[quote][b][user]buzz-in[/user][/b] said: Sign the petition here. http://www.last.fm/user/buzz-in/journal[/quote]

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- botpopbot said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 08:26
Another step in the history of last.fm dissapointments. I guess you lost that much listeners by this 3 euro fee, can you afford to lost that more? I don't want to get money for playing my music, I want to reach people! I want last.fm what last.fm used to be. For discovering unknown music.

[quote][b][user]botpopbot[/user][/b] said: Another step in the history of last.fm dissapointments. I guess you lost that much listeners by this 3 euro fee, can you afford to lost that more? I don't want to get money for playing my music, I want to reach people! I want last.fm what last.fm used to be. For discovering unknown music.[/quote]

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- Auxerra said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 08:32
Rawr! I want the music players back! This is not cool!

[quote][b][user]Auxerra[/user][/b] said: Rawr! I want the music players back! This is not cool![/quote]

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- lactophobia said...
- User
- 21 May 2009, 08:42
What a tragic waste. I'm glad I didn't renew my subscription.

yeah, me too...

Check out my music projects @ last.fm !!!
Paperhead Extended Psychedelic Rock
Lactophobia Sonic Landscapes

[quote][b][user]lactophobia[/user][/b] said: What a tragic waste. I'm glad I didn't renew my subscription. yeah, me too...[/quote]

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- Tecfan said...
- Event Moderator
- 21 May 2009, 09:07
One of the world's largest and best music streamers aims for as few streams as possible. That's kinda sad.. I know you have to cut, but why not start elsewhere? I once read an article about how incredibly much you can save just minimizing the length of the html/css/javascript code. simple changes like re-naming the "images" folder to "i" doesn't seem like much, but when you multiply it with ... let's say 100 million pageviews a month, that will count. but i have read that the problem is music licensing...

as little as I like the recent changes I support you, and knowing that you actually read our posts is also good. but I still think you should engage us active users more. ask us what we think (even if you have already decided that the change will go through). we could tell you how we wanted the empty space to be used and perhaps design suggestions etc etc

oh and also, I previously asked what other bugs you have fixed. any usability fixes that I can enjoy?

If you're into experimental midicore/guitarprocore, you might enjoy my (free) tracks: Tecfan

[quote][b][user]Tecfan[/user][/b] said: One of the world's largest and best music streamers aims for as few streams as possible. That's kinda sad.. I know you have to cut, but why not start elsewhere? I once read an article about how incredibly much you can save just minimizing the length of the html/css/javascript code. simple changes like re-naming the "images" folder to "i" doesn't seem like much, but when you multiply it with ... let's say 100 million pageviews a month, that will count. but i have read that the problem is music licensing... as little as I like the recent changes I support you, and knowing that you actually read our posts is also good. but I still think you should engage us active users more. ask us what we think (even if you have already decided that the change will go through). we could tell you how we wanted the empty space to be used and perhaps design suggestions etc etc oh and also, I previously asked what other bugs you have fixed. any usability fixes that I can enjoy?[/quote]

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