Forum » Feedback and Ideas

Last.fm is not handling the feedback well, IMHO

 
    • shehera said...
    • Subscriber
    • 19 Jul 2008, 11:31

    Thanks to Russ for clarifying the main motive behind the redesign

    I am really grateful for Russ' very informative comments on the ad question (see http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4350427.ece). His comments that I quote below have confirmed my ideas about the reason for the ample white space in the redesign.

    Russ Quote 1:

    We honestly don't want advertising on the site (and I think we've done pretty well so far), but unfortunately we have to run a business and so advertising is a fact of
    life. We try and keep it low-key, but if someone offers us a vast amount of money for doing something which doesn't completely run against our whole ideals then we kind of have to do it to stay alive.
    We're currently wallpapering some of our landing pages (like http://www.last.fm/music) for advertisers, which I don't think looks too bad, especially if you're not keen on our new white background ;)

    WorldFusionRadio Quote 1:

    I am glad you brought that up, because that is the dark cloud over all of this. We know about the new advertising scheme that was in today's press release to the
    business media (http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4350427.ece) . The possibility that you did all of this just to force feed us more targeted advertising is a very big and real concern to people.

    Russ Quote 2 (answering Worldfusionradio):

    Personally, I think this is unfortunate timing. As I mentioned in my previous post,
    we aren't trying to squeeze as much money as we can out of our users. That certainly wasn't the point of the site design. But (cynically speaking) it's also a good selling point to try and get advertisers to buy space. Such is life.


    My questions to the last.fm staff: Why do we have to read Times Online to understand your motives for the redesign? Are you afraid of the user reaction?

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    • shehera said...
    • Subscriber
    • 19 Jul 2008, 11:33

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    • leoJP said...
    • User
    • 19 Jul 2008, 11:37
    I feel so conflicted.

    I love last.fm and the staff and yet I find a lot of problems with this update, I feel nasty for saying how I don't like it and yet I feel as an active user of the site I should really voice my opinion.
    *sigh*

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  • spacefish said:
    coffee_au_lait said:
    come on, only subscribers had access to beta version. what about other users?
    The second "stage" of beta, last.fm sent invites to various non-subscribers. The third, they opened it to everyone. So there was access to the beta for everyone at one point or another. Did you ever visit your dashboard? That's where the announcement was.
    no, i didn't, because i used last.fm only for scrobbling and sometimes radio, althouh it was crappy. it still doesn't make bthis layout not simply horrible.

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    • UPRC said...
    • User
    • 19 Jul 2008, 11:58
    My problem with this new look is that they ripped the distinctive feel from last.fm. This does not even feel like the same site anymore and I really don't feel all that interested even coming to my profile page anymore, unlike a week ago where I was still strongly addicted even after two years.

    The ONLY thing I like about this new version is the live updating of charts.. Aside from that, the functionality is horrendous and the layout is flat out hideous and anything but user-friendly.

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    • nocius said...
    • User
    • 19 Jul 2008, 11:58

    No constructive criticism? Open your eyes!

    I can't really understand __trau's and jiggzy's posts. There is no constructive criticism? Have you even read this topic? What the hell are you thinking? Just read the last pages of this thread. Read them carefully. Perhaps you would see that your posts couldn't be further away from the truth.

    This topic, at least on the last few pages, is so full of constructive, logical criticism. There are some douchebags who won't do anything but insult the staff and the new design, but as far as I have read, the majority of the users here in this topic offer enough constructive criticism to signal the site staff that we're in need of a change.
    Of course, if you visit various groups, it's a different thing. But this thread has been a great platform for communication with the staff, there is no way we can call what is going on here destructive or bland.

    Tired, trembling,
    I am descending.
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    • Babs_05 said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:02
    Quote button doesn't work, sorry for this workaround:


    * das_eisenherz said...
    *
    * Subscriber
    * 19 Jul 2008, 06:38

    "Yes, there is some business justification for some of the changes in the new site, but this site is a business, and we have to make money."

    This is the bit which really saddens me.

    I am giving you guys money. Not that much, but still a pretty good amount. The reason I am giving you that money, is because this website provides an awesome feature: the charts. Now, as I am willingly giving you money for it, I expect you not make money off my data. You already are, I am giving you that money directly. In theory, as a subscriber, I get no ads, and I hope it stays this way... however, I am getting very worried about my data and privacy. Am I paying for my information to be given in order to make money? Because if it is the case, as great as your service is, I'm not gonna pay someone who shares my information with companies to make additional money.

    You say you are a company, and are there to make money. As far as I remember, it used to not be really the case. I remember the good old friendly Audioscrobbler, providing a really cool tool, and (seemingly) not caring at all about selling the information it's collecting. Was it really that friendly, I don't know anymore, but at least that's the impression I got. And I could whine for hours about the design and this new feature and blah blah blah, but in the end, as long as I get my charts, I'll be glad to pay for Last.fm, even if I think the design has severely regressed. But if my information is gonna be sold, then no way. I'm not here to help you make money, I'm here for my charts, and I'll gladly pay you directly for this cool service. This part of the whole thing could really make stop subscribing, and erasing all my data (if I can, I'm getting worried here). I'd be sad to do so, though, cause I love my charts.

    Good point. Will we be able to opt out?


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  • Quoth coffee_au_lait:
    no, i didn't, because i used last.fm only for scrobbling and sometimes radio, althouh it was crappy. it still doesn't make bthis layout not simply horrible.
    Well, just because you didn't know about didn't mean non-subscribers didn't have access to beta.

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  • Re: .

    __trauWhat problems are there actually with the new design that justify all this whining?

    Just read comments here. You can find a lot of very clear and constructive comments explaining why people don't like this new design.

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    • feeding said...
    • User
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:13
    I've just read what Russ has to say. I do appreciate the huge amount of work of re-designing, but I still hope to have the "good old" user-friendly, music-oriented, simple and no-frills last.fm website.

    As he said, the background architecture has been hugely improved. But I feel he kinda misses the point, partly because of the aggressiveness in the feedback. I'm on the "bring back" group, and as far as I can see, the trouble (both for the last.fm and for the users) is:

    1. On the first day, and still now, it was very hard to see the improvements through the new layout and the new site design overall despite the huge change. It was a "shock horror!" moment for me. ;-P Apply the Paint It Black stylesheet (you can find it here and here until they act on it), and you'll instantly find that the "new layout" fails to show the actual improvement to the users. Even if the last.fm wanted to make the "change" very visible by changing their colours, why use these eye-burning red, white and light blue, instead of, say, olive, silver and dark orange? Why the blank space on the left-hand side? Where's the dashboard? etc. While it is understandable that they had a deadline and had to go with this horrible layout with less user-friendly navigation, it's true that this has pissed many users off. Too much shock and too much horror.

    2. There are many "old" features that are missing, or seem to be missing. And there's no explanation about why they had to go. A lot of users know that there has to be the lost feature anywhere on the site, because basically the last.fm is about charts/stats, but the current website nagivation is so bad that they just can't find it. They waste an awful lot of time trying to find it. This is simply frustrating. I think this is a lesson they can learn from: do not take any existing feature away without fully explaining about it.

    I've been using last.fm since 2005 under my current username, even though I'm not a subscriber, and I'm not resisting against the "change". I found the "change" in 2006 a huge improvement and didn't have anything to say. I just kept on using the site and recommending the web service to my friends because it's so simple and user-friendly. But this time, well, I'm not sure.

    I'm not "whining" either. It's a shame that Russ saw the whole thing that way. To be precise, I don't want to have "the old last.fm" back. What I do want to have is an "improved" last.fm that I can use with ease and I can recommend to my website visitors and friends, as I did many times before.

    Equal rights for last.fm members - I believe that giving equal access to diverse cultures from more nations contribute to quality within the last.fm community and library, and quality in my life.
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    • Babs_05 said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:14
    Kerensky97 said:
    Instead of calling for reversion, try exploring every corner of the site, every link, every new feature, and try to find what can be fixed within the existing framework.

    The staff has said that they're still very open to further improvements and feedback on the site including design issues...
    ...short of scrubbing it all and putting the old site back up. :)

    With respect, I'm not being mean, but they need to start again.

    I distinctly remember being told the Music and Video pages were just thrown together, just for now, to get things going. So all in all, we're not at your stage yet. They're still building. Or at least - should be. :s

    ... actually, just remembered Russ saying something about they're still looking at design issues, particularly regarding Profiles. (in this thread somewhere).

    So if that's the case - that means they're still accepting feedback on design?

    Man, I'm confused...


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    • Babs_05 said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:16
    leoJP said:
    I feel so conflicted.

    I love last.fm and the staff and yet I find a lot of problems with this update, I feel nasty for saying how I don't like it and yet I feel as an active user of the site I should really voice my opinion.
    *sigh*

    That's exactly how I feel. I'm very fond of the site, very fond of the people running it. It hurts me to criticise. :(


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    • Ant17 said...
    • User
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:20

    Re: Thanks to Russ for clarifying the main motive behind the redesign

    shehera said:
    My questions to the last.fm staff: Why do we have to read Times Online to understand your motives for the redesign? Are you afraid of the user reaction?

    Honestly, yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. I think the higher authority above Russ and the other staff who have very respectfully been posting and talking with us, have done a shameful job and as far as I can see, let a lot of people, including staff, in the dark. The only really conclusion I can come to is that it's either still not ready, and they won't answer until it's done (but then, why is it already active?) or they're scared shitless of losing even more customers after all this bad feedback when they say: "It's not going to change".

    www.last.fm.com/music/Ceryx
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  • the design posted by das_eisenherz is absolutely better than the actual one.

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  • Quoth red157:
    To use an old, old term - "The customer is always right"
    If you knew my mother (customer), you'd know this saying is an old wive's tale.

    So if by merely visiting this site, the customer is pissed off, surely that makes last.fm wrong... no?
    See above.

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  • Sepia_Verve said:
    I'm having a similar issue with shoutboxes. Everytime I start typing a message my avatar JUMPS over and mask a margin of what I'm typing.

    Everyone I know is having the same issue. It makes if very difficult to post shouts.

    Plus, seeing as the shoutbox has been placed, rather inconveniently at the bottom the page, maybe it would be nice if at the top of the page there was something that could tell you if you have any new shouts. Before you could see them right away now you have to scroll half a mile to see if there's anything new there.

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  • Missing the point.

    It seems like everyone is rattling the sabers over the wrong problems. Maybe the new design isn't as easy to use, and maybe some of the items could be moved around on the page, and the colours changed, and all that...but who cares?

    The real problem at hand is the change in functionality and policies. Pushing something as drastic as losing the ability to play a playlist for non-subscribers into a site update was a serious mistake.

    I guess the diversion worked, though, because more people apparently care about what boxes go where and whether or not there is a black-skinned version of the page.

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    • Babs_05 said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:25
    trackaghost said:
    Sepia_Verve said:
    I'm having a similar issue with shoutboxes. Everytime I start typing a message my avatar JUMPS over and mask a margin of what I'm typing.

    Everyone I know is having the same issue. It makes if very difficult to post shouts.

    Plus, seeing as the shoutbox has been placed, rather inconveniently at the bottom the page, maybe it would be nice if at the top of the page there was something that could tell you if you have any new shouts. Before you could see them right away now you have to scroll half a mile to see if there's anything new there.


    It must be a bug. It's not happening to me. I'm on FF3, WinXP.


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    • Babs_05 said...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:26

    Re: Missing the point.

    baumandm said:
    It seems like everyone is rattling the sabers over the wrong problems. Maybe the new design isn't as easy to use, and maybe some of the items could be moved around on the page, and the colours changed, and all that...but who cares?

    The real problem at hand is the change in functionality and policies. Pushing something as drastic as losing the ability to play a playlist for non-subscribers into a site update was a serious mistake.

    I guess the diversion worked, though, because more people apparently care about what boxes go where and whether or not there is a black-skinned version of the page.

    That and the issue of our data and privacy.


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    • lozzd said...
    • Alumni
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:27
    trackaghost said:
    Sepia_Verve said:
    I'm having a similar issue with shoutboxes. Everytime I start typing a message my avatar JUMPS over and mask a margin of what I'm typing.

    Everyone I know is having the same issue. It makes if very difficult to post shouts.


    In which browser? I'm not sure if we know about that or not.. Doesn't happen for me in Firefox 3 though.


    Want a fully customisable sig (like above?) CLICK HERE!
    Insert disclaimer here.
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  • Just making some of the elements collapsible would help a lot, movable or removable would be even better.

    I hated the design yesterday, today I'm getting used to it slightly, but still the same niggles annoy me.

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    • Beliyal said...
    • User
    • 19 Jul 2008, 12:30
    lozzd said:
    trackaghost said:
    Sepia_Verve said:
    I'm having a similar issue with shoutboxes. Everytime I start typing a message my avatar JUMPS over and mask a margin of what I'm typing.

    Everyone I know is having the same issue. It makes if very difficult to post shouts.


    In which browser? I'm not sure if we know about that or not.. Doesn't happen for me in Firefox 3 though.


    I have the same problem. Also, when I click the link to reach my shoutbox without scrolling, I am tossed at the bottom of the page (where I, however, enjoy in those slogans :)). I am using IE 7.

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  • I've seen many design changes. For example, every time Apple invented new MacOS version, I was eager to have it only because it was more and more convenient and eye-catchy. Same for Microsoft. I hate Vista for being buggy and resource-consuming, but I must admit it looks pretty cool at least .

    The key for successful changes is evolution. New version should be made better than previous. I believe new last.fm programming is better. But graphic design isn't. Pity.

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  • HELP IS HERE. <-- click it

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  • WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    [Before, I could click on my Last.fm tab (which was permanently open in a Firefox tab) and within 10 seconds I knew who had sent me a message, who had visited, what my "friends" were listening to, and more. Now, it takes that nearly that long just to refresh the page even with my 6Mb broadband connection. It takes me five clicks to get down to my Shoutbox. No recommendations, no Dashboard. User profiles are below the fold (very stupid). The user page is now dominated by the Library which serves no purpose other than take up space and the radio player which I have never personally found use for (I already have those songs, duh), though I know others use it...Web Design 101 - don't make your visitors work too hard.


    I agree with these comments completely. The huge pictures from the library in the centre of the page and the player are useless to me, but everything I do use is either hidden or takes numerous clicks to get to.

    Also why are the pictures and album covers for the recently listened tracks so small? What's the point of having them there if you can't even make out what they are? I don't see why there are such huge pictures for the library at the expense of the recently listened tracks. I'd much prefer these to be a decent size and the library thing to be, at the very least, collapsible.

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